Do we really need the SL APO Primes?

[Andrew Gough]

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35mm wide open

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[Tailwagger]

AFAIC, the SL-75 is a very special lens, one of my favorites of all time.  The 35mm, which many love, for me, not so much. My feeling now is that unless you're the hulk or can afford a sherpa, no matter how great the primes might be, they simply are too large and impractical to carry around.  With IBIS, the added stop or two they provide isn't all that valuable, certainly less so than mass and space required to schlep them. I suppose if one where more capable of stoicism, it would be possible to carry a pair, say the 28 and 50 or 75mm and make due. The 45mm Sigma is small enough to slip in as well for a 28-45-75 setup, I suppose, though it would be entirely out classed in that company.  There are so many excess pixels that skipping a focal length or two is certainly possible. 

Personally I've concluded that the SL was designed with zooms in mind.  If I had it to do all over again, I'd have bought the 16-35 (or Sigma 14-24), the 24-90 and the 70-200 f2.8 Lumix (which I currently own) and left it at that. But in my case, I have the M and a dozen primes which makes such approach less angst ridden. As it is, I'll keep the 75mm... its just too good not to own... and 70-200, buy the Sigma and waffle back and forth for a while and buy the 24-70 over the 24-90 largely due to weight concerns.

 

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[Andrew Gough]

I tend to shoot the 35/75mm combo or the zooms.

[Andrew Gough]

Don't underestimate the Panasonic 24-105mm as a lightweight alternative to the 24-90mm...

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[LocalHero1953]

10 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

AFAIC, the SL-75 is a very special lens, one of my favorites of all time.  The 35mm, which many love, for me, not so much. My feeling now is that unless you're the hulk or can afford a sherpa, no matter how great the primes might be, they simply are too large and impractical to carry around.  With IBIS, the added stop or two they provide isn't all that valuable, certainly less so than mass and space required to schlep them. I suppose if one where more capable of stoicism, it would be possible to carry a pair, say the 28 and 50 or 75mm and make due. The 45mm Sigma is small enough to slip in as well for a 28-45-75 setup, I suppose, though it would be entirely out classed in that company.  There are so many excess pixels that skipping a focal length or two is certainly possible. 

Personally I've concluded that the SL was designed with zooms in mind.  If I had it to do all over again, I'd have bought the 16-35 (or Sigma 14-24), the 24-90 and the 70-200 f2.8 Lumix (which I currently own) and left it at that. But in my case, I have the M and a dozen primes which makes such approach less angst ridden. As it is, I'll keep the 75mm... its just too good not to own... and 70-200, buy the Sigma and waffle back and forth for a while and buy the 24-70 over the 24-90 largely due to weight concerns.

I agree that IBIS can compensate for lack of a wider aperture in some circumstances, but not when the subject is active. I couldn't use a much slower speed than 1/160 in my stage rehearsal shots, without risking blur (and I did get blur in some more energetic ones). It depends what you shoot.

I agree about the SL and zooms - they seem made for each other. I had just the 24-90 and 90-280 for a long period before branching out.

IMO, and looking at it with common sense, now is not the right time to make buying and selling decisions about cameras and lenses. We've had nearly 18 months of unique (often limited) photographic opportunities - better to wait another six months. I know common sense doesn't always apply: I bought the 35SL during lockdown and it has seen little use - but I'll give it time.

[Tailwagger]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I agree that IBIS can compensate for lack of a wider aperture in some circumstances, but not when the subject is active. I couldn't use a much slower speed than 1/160 in my stage rehearsal shots, without risking blur (and I did get blur in some more energetic ones). It depends what you shoot.

True. I shoot theater/concerts as well. When I weighed, literally, everything out that use case was the deciding factor in paying up for the Pano 70-200 F2.8 over the much lighter, more compact F4.  And sure, IBIS isn't a panacea. Beyond being of little use for moving targets, it's not very good at stationary ones either when the subject is close. Further, I'm of the opinion that the SL2, cant speak to the -S, isn't ideal from a high ISO noise PoV so speed is a legitimate concern.  But OTOH,  you can cover 14-200mm all at f2.8 for not much more than the cost of a single Summicron with but one stop lost.  A 90mm is $5795 at the moment.  The Sigma 14-24 F2.8 + Leica 24-70 F2.8 + Lumix 70-200 F2.8 currently tally $6,691. Forego a little more fidelity in favor of the Sigma 24-70mm and it's a mere $4995.  Economics, coverage and portability with zooms, ultimate in fidelity and rendering with a tick more speed for a ton more money with primes. Nothing really new in that. I currently own some of each, but in retrospect, already having a substantial investment in fast primes for the M, there really was not much justification, other than aching desire, for the two SL 'crons I did buy. 

 

 

[chris_tribble]

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8 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

.IMO, and looking at it with common sense, now is not the right time to make buying and selling decisions about cameras and lenses. We've had nearly 18 months of unique (often limited) photographic opportunities - better to wait another six months. I know common sense doesn't always apply: I bought the 35SL during lockdown and it has seen little use - but I'll give it time.

Paul, that makes a lot of sense (though I may have to make some decisions if and when the rumoured M11 is a persuasive offering!j

[beewee]

I personally lean towards the APO Summicron SL primes for my own use cases which is primarily outdoor shooting while hiking, scrambling, and climbing in the mountains. I find the SL primes are smaller, more compact and easier to handle while moving quickly. I also find that even at 28mm, I can get unique subject separation with a rendering that I can’t achieve with zooms (at least not the SVE). If the goal is shooting stopped down (f/5.6+), then the only advantage the APO SL primes have over something like the SVE is the size/weight, and micro contrast at the far corners at the expense of flexibility in focal length. If I wanted to save weight and don’t require additional focal lengths, the Sigma 24mm f/3.5 is just as sharp out to the corners when stopped down to f/5.6-f/8. The Sigma 24 f/3.5 DG DN is an absolute bargain at 1/10th the price and a little more than 1/4 the weight of the APO Summicron SL primes but lacks the unique rendering found in the APO SL when shooting wide open.

When I’m in the mountains, I generally don’t feel the need for anything more than a single 21/24/28mm depending on location that I’m shooting. Counter intuitively, I find places that have large open valleys and where peaks are farther away, like alpine meadows, usually mean I can shoot narrower (i.e. 28mm) while places with peaks that are much closer require a wider field of view. Overall, 24mm seems to be an ideal compromise for me.

Where I would most definitely choose the SVE over the APO SL primes would be while shooting out of a car or on a boat where weight is less of an issue and there are more variety in subject matter that would benefit from different focal lengths, while changing lenses may be undesirable due to environmental factors such as dust on gravel roads or sea spray on a boat. So for something like touring fjords, the SVE would be the way to go, but for slow changing scenery or places that I’m mainly focused on shooting landscapes such as on a hike, APO SL primes are the way to go for me.

I think if I could have a dream lens for time in the mountains, I would want something like the Panasonic 20-60mm, with an aperture of f/4, have the APO SL build and size that weighs less than 750g and ideally around 500g, and sharpness similar to Sigma 24 f/3.5 DG DN. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by beewee

[scott kirkpatrick]

I bought the 24/3.5 DG DN when it came out, not expecting Leica to offer an APO prime soon.  It hasn't gotten any closer.  I am quite happy with the lens and not holding my breath. 

I was influenced by working on Ms with the M 24 Elmarit-asph, a slightly older lens, very bright but not as sharp across the frame as the latest super APOs, but very effective.

[sultanqtr]

leica sl2 + 28 sl apo at f2

 

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Edited August 23, 2021 by sultanqtr

[sultanqtr]

leica sl2 + 28 sl apo at f2 

 

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[sultanqtr]

leica sl2 + 28 sl apo at f2 

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[sultanqtr]

leica sl2 + 35 sl apo at f2

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[sultanqtr]

leica sl2 + 50 sl apo at f2

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[setuporg]

A lot of folks commented that the SL 50 APO is even better than the revolutionary M 50 APO.  It's certainly the easiest to use  casually at a kids party, with a beer in hand, and other one-handed setups to casually shoot lots of candid photos quickly.  The ding-dong zooms will not allow for that kind of handholding for long enough.

[chris_tribble]

4 hours ago, sultanqtr said:

leica sl2 + 50 sl apo at f2

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Not quite sure what point you're making here.... 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by chris_tribble

[Boojay]

Won't continue with the trading tree bark shots, I'm not sure what point anyone is making😉!

The question asked in the title,  do we really need the SL Apo primes, maybe better answered if it was do you really need the SL Apo primes.

I made the choice of the 50/90 SL and left the zooms alone, (well the Leica ones anyway), TBH those two lenses are the only reason I keep my SL2, but I can perfectly see that for others the zooms are a must, from images I've seen however, I think the 50SL performs better at 50 than the zoom, just as the 90SL IQ betters the zoom, at 90 f/2 for sure!  

We all decide for ourselves what suits our shooting needs and style best, I guess Leica would love us to have it all😀. 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Boojay

[markforce]

Size/weight has always been my conundrum. Coming from the M (which I do not longer) to the SL2, I added the 50 and 90 SL primes, in addition to Sigma's 14-24. I won't bother trying let alone seriously considering Leica's zooms given their size. Mind you I don't do professional work, I am an amateur initially fallen in love with M9 and that system's small lenses. So as far as I am concerned the primes are 'my way to go'.

[jplomley]

Well, a macro prime capable of 1:1 would be much appreciated and a clear differentiation from the available zoom capabilities. But they can’t even get the last two WA primes out the door. How late are they now?  I’ve lost track as the years past promised have rolled on….

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[beewee]

I have no doubt the promised 21mm and 24mm APO SL primes are coming. If history is any indicator, the APO SL primes are either released in the months of February or August. It wouldn’t surprise me if the delay of the 28mm APO was because of a combination of the pandemic shutdowns plus component shortages, as well as overwhelming demand for the 35mm APO. Since all SL primes are made on the same line, it wouldn’t make sense for Leica to release yet another model that will have initial high demand while they have trouble keeping up with existing lens demand.

Since it’s nearing the end of August, my guess is that we won’t see the next wide angle APO SL until February of next year. My wallet will breath a sigh of relief.