SL vs M (if you could only keep one)

[6bit]

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8 hours ago, chris_tribble said:

I’d strongly recommend the M10-R as your long term M keeper.  The sensor is a real step up as is the shutter.  I’m seriously considering this as my last M as I can’t envisage any additional improvements that will be added without damaging the aesthetic or functionality …

Has the ISO button been redone to make it easier to pull up?

[malligator]

If I could honestly only keep one camera it would definitely be my analog M-A. I carry it with me everywhere.

However, I have an entire Nikon system just sitting around collecting dust that may turn into an SL2(or -S). It will use it to support my M-A. It will wear M glass when I will want instant access to the photos to share. Or if I know I'll need the low light capabilities. Or perhaps I'll add a 90-280 for the reach I'll never get with the M-A.

What I'm thinking my setup will be in the future:

M-A
Sekonic incident meter
Reveni Labs spot meter
50 Lux-M (to pair with the 28)
35 FLE (when I only want to carry one lens)
28 Elmarit (to pair with the 50)
90 APO-M (for max desired reach on the M)
SL2 or -S
90-280 SL
M Adapter L

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[chris_tribble]

On 12/24/2021 at 5:06 PM, 6bit said:

Has the ISO button been redone to make it easier to pull up?

I’ve not noticed a difference - but don’t find it difficult to raise.  It’s firm but easy…

[chris_tribble]

On 12/25/2021 at 7:06 PM, malligator said:

:M-A
Sekonic incident meter
Reveni Labs spot meter
50 Lux-M (to pair with the 28)
35 FLE (when I only want to carry one lens)
28 Elmarit (to pair with the 50)
90 APO-M (for max desired reach on the M)
SL2 or -S
90-280 SL
M Adapter L

An interesting list - but I notice that you’ve not included the 24-90! It’s such a useful lens. 

[malligator]

5 hours ago, chris_tribble said:

An interesting list - but I notice that you’ve not included the 24-90! It’s such a useful lens. 

I found on my Nikon kit I could jump from a normal prime (35/50) straight to the tele zoom. The Leica starts at 90, though, so maybe I would need to fill that gap. Let's just say I reserve the right to change my mind about it.

Edited December 28, 2021 by malligator

[chris_tribble]

My experience has been that the SL2 + 24-90 meets a great majority of my needs. I now use M10-R + 28/35/50 for personal work and travel (when it’s possible!) and SL2 for professional assignments. The 90-280 is exceptional - but only gets occasional use. 

[Yellow_78]

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If I had to choose I would go with the SL2-S. Simply because it's an all rounder and the practical solution in my situation. I can travel with it, take portraits, make landscapes, do street and also make video. Most importantly, it's a much easier camera to work with to capture memories with family and better still, my partner can also work it easy.

If I was taking photos just out of pure enjoyment and only for myself, I would stick with the M because that's where my heart has always been. It's the camera that makes me want to shoot. I've always loved its form/ function but sometimes you got to go with what's practical!

[Fgcm]

After testing the SL2 I sold the entire M set and now I'm happy with my SL2 with 3 Summicron primes (and a Q2).

In my honest opinion, the SL2 is a better camera and it's image quality is the very best on the market.

 

 

[mirekti]

Do M lenses work better on SL2-S than on SL2 or it is the same?

My concern are 24mm Elmar and 35mm FLE and edge performance.

[beewee]

32 minutes ago, mirekti said:

Do M lenses work better on SL2-S than on SL2 or it is the same?

My concern are 24mm Elmar and 35mm FLE and edge performance.

Not great. I have both lenses + SL2-S and it’s no where near as sharp in the edge/corner as on the M10.

To add additional context, the $600 Sigma 24/3.5 DG DN is sharper on the SL2-S than the 24mm Elmar.

Edited January 17, 2022 by beewee

[mirekti]

25 minutes ago, beewee said:

To add additional context, the $600 Sigma 24/3.5 DG DN is sharper on the SL2-S than the 24mm Elmar.

Case closed, and there’s no sense in beating the dead horse.
Unfortunatelly no video on M11 at all. 🤷‍♂️

[beewee]

1 hour ago, mirekti said:

Case closed, and there’s no sense in beating the dead horse.
Unfortunatelly no video on M11 at all. 🤷‍♂️

Unless you need large apertures, the Sigma 24/3.5 DG DN is excellent when stopped down to f/5.6 or f/8. I’ve tested it with 100MP multi-shot mode and it resolves well out to the corners. See posts #16-19 here:

I don’t have the Sigma 35/1.4 or 35/2 DG DN but reviews are generally good and the 35/1.4 is outstanding.

Unless you really dig the APO SL prime look and/or need to shoot wide open, the Sigma DG DN L-mount lenses are well worth it and quite a bargain. Their ergonomics and haptics are excellent and the i-series primes are much lighter than any Leica SL lenses. That said, I do very much like the APO SL prime look and you can get nice bokeh even at 28mm when shot wide open. Enough so that I’ll probably end up getting the 21mm and 24mm APO SL when they eventually get released.

Here’s an example of the 28 APO SL shot wide open.

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And one more shot at f/2 with zero coma.

Edited January 17, 2022 by beewee

[tom0511]

beewee - very nice images and I also do really like the look.

Have you ever compared the 28 Summicron to one of the Zooms (24-70 or 24-90 or 16-35)?

Have you ever compared to Leica M 28mm (Summilux or Summicron)?

 

[threeseed]

10 hours ago, mirekti said:

Do M lenses work better on SL2-S than on SL2 or it is the same?

My concern are 24mm Elmar and 35mm FLE and edge performance.

Fred Miranda has reviews of the Voigtlander 28mm showing extreme corner/edge performance between M10-R and SL2. 

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1704868/10#infinityb

Apparently that 28mm is sensitive to sensor thickness and the results are pretty close (and much better than using M lens with a Sony camera).

[beewee]

8 hours ago, tom0511 said:

beewee - very nice images and I also do really like the look.

Have you ever compared the 28 Summicron to one of the Zooms (24-70 or 24-90 or 16-35)?

Have you ever compared to Leica M 28mm (Summilux or Summicron)?

 

Thanks Tom,

No, I haven’t used the 28mm M summilux or summicron. I have a 28mm Elmarit ASPH v1 which I rarely use since I’m normally shooting 18/24/35/90 focal lengths. My typical 3 lens kit would be 18/24/90 for landscape and 24/35/90 or 35/50/90 for street. I just prefer the FoV of the 24 more than the 28. I’d say 90% of my M10 photos are with the 24 Elmar which is a spectacular but unfortunately discontinued lens that works amazingly on the M10 and, unfortunately just doesn’t have the magic on the SL2-S.

On the SL2-S, I either use the Sigma 14-24/2.8 DG DN for astrophotography or Leica 16-35 SL for landscape, mainly because I find it handles lens flare and ghosting better (without filters) and has a more useable focal length range. I’ve shot with the 28 APO SL  as my single lens on occasion and although it usually is ok and I can adjust my shooting style, I still prefer either a 24mm or 21mm focal length. I would be pretty happy with just the 24 APO SL as a one-prime setup when it eventually comes out. A Q3 with a 24mm would also be very appealing,

Edited January 17, 2022 by beewee

[tom0511]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb beewee:

Thanks Tom,

No, I haven’t used the 28mm M summilux or summicron. I have a 28mm Elmarit ASPH v1 which I rarely use since I’m normally shooting 18/24/35/90 focal lengths. My typical 3 lens kit would be 18/24/90 for landscape and 24/35/90 or 35/50/90 for street. I just prefer the FoV of the 24 more than the 28. I’d say 90% of my M10 photos are with the 24 Elmar which is a spectacular but unfortunately discontinued lens that works amazingly on the M10 and, unfortunately just doesn’t have the magic on the SL2-S.

On the SL2-S, I either use the Sigma 14-24/2.8 DG DN for astrophotography or Leica 16-35 SL for landscape, mainly because I find it handles lens flare and ghosting better (without filters) and has a more useable focal length range. I’ve shot with the 28 APO SL  as my single lens on occasion and although it usually is ok and I can adjust my shooting style, I still prefer either a 24mm or 21mm focal length. I would be pretty happy with just the 24 APO SL as a one-prime setup when it eventually comes out. A Q3 with a 24mm would also be very appealing,

Thank you for your answer. So for what purpose you own/use the SL Summicron 28 if you prefer 24?

Edited January 17, 2022 by tom0511

[beewee]

40 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

Thank you for your answer. So for what purpose you own/use the SL Summicron 28 if you prefer 24?

The 28 APO SL is every bit as impressive as the 35 APO SL, however APO SL primes are much bigger than M-primes so instead of carrying 2-3 M primes for walking around I’d probably carry 1-2 L-mount primes. I haven’t done much street photography for a while as I haven’t travelled much due to the pandemic but I can imagine using a 28 APO SL + Sigma 90/2.8 DG DN as a 2 lens SL prime setup. The 28 splits the difference between 24 and 35. 

The reason I prefer 24mm is because I’m mostly shooting landscape while hiking in the mountains and 24mm is wide enough to capture grand vistas without distorting people inside the photos. It also reflects how I view the world with both eyes open and provides a more intimate perspective when shooting people since it forces me to get closer. Whereas with the 28mm focal length, I need to move back a bit more to get a similar background with the same sized subject and it feels a bit less intimate which is probably better for street photography but less so for a more documentary style of photography in the mountains.

Edited January 17, 2022 by beewee

[kriskunisch]

For those who use(d)/own(ed) both the M10 and SL2-S, any difference in color between the two cameras? My partner has the M10, I shoot with an M240, and the closest SL2-S is 4 hour drive away. I love the output of the Ms, but am tempted to add the SL2-S to my bag.

[beewee]

58 minutes ago, kriskunisch said:

For those who use(d)/own(ed) both the M10 and SL2-S, any difference in color between the two cameras? My partner has the M10, I shoot with an M240, and the closest SL2-S is 4 hour drive away. I love the output of the Ms, but am tempted to add the SL2-S to my bag.

I don’t shoot them side-by-side so I haven’t done any direct comparison but I find I process the photos the same way in Lightroom using Adobe Color profile and the look is similar. You’re likely to see a bigger colour difference coming from the lenses (especially older or third-party glass) than the cameras themselves. In general, I use only native L-mount glass on the SL2-S and Leica M lenses on the M10. Even though I have the M to L adapter and tested the M mount lenses on the SL2-S, I haven’t been happy with the performance with the lenses that I have. It’s also a very different shooting style, so I think M-lenses make more sense used on an M-body and L-mount lenses makes more sense on an L-mount body. Since I’m fortunate to have both the M10 and SL2-S, I don’t see a point in shooting my M-lenses with the SL2-S and I definitely wouldn’t buy M-lenses to shoot on the SL2-S if I didn’t already own an M body.

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[threeseed]

13 hours ago, tom0511 said:

Have you ever compared the 28 Summicron to one of the Zooms (24-70 or 24-90 or 16-35)?

Have you ever compared to Leica M 28mm (Summilux or Summicron)?

RedDotForum when they did the review of the 24-70 talked about comparisons with the M lenses on an SL.

They said that the 24-70 in particular was much closer in rendering to an M than an SL prime.