Forget the M11-D, we want the M-A-D!

[Datsch]

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Yes, you guessed it, the M-A-D is a cross between the M-A and the M-D.

It would look exactly like an M-A, without the R-lever and the rewind knob and counter window.

In search of the purest picture taking experience, let's ditch the meter like the M-A does.

Hence no need for aperture priority or exposure comp or thumbwheel. You use your inbuilt light meter, your eyes. Manual shutter speed setting becomes instinctive, yes?

Of course there's also no ISO dial so we need a fixed ISO.  I'm thinking ISO 400 and then add 1/8000 and 1/16000 to the shutter dial. That would be useable indoors and outside.

Phew. What a relief to shed all those functions and dials!

Now I know that faux-film advance lever on the M10-D has split opinion. As a left eye shooter all it does is poke me in the eye. And I never use the lever as a thumbgrip on my film cameras. So let's just make it removable according to your taste.

No need for an on-off switch, just have an eye sensor in the viewfinder instead. In combination with a half press of the shutter button, that should be foolproof enough.

I know that removing the thumbwheel also removes the M-D's date and time setting. So simply have a radio clock inside, like many cheap casio watches have, which automatically tunes in to the atomic clock radio for always-correct auto time.

Having started out as a bit of a joke, describing this 'mad' thing, it actually seems rather sensible...?

What other features should it not have?

[pippy]

Use the M-D Typ-262 as a basis in terms of pretty much everything. Slim it to M3 (M10) dimensions and for goodness' sake remove the Exp. Comp. wheel & bump. Return the design of the base-plate removal catch to the semi-circular-in-a-circle design set in the classic 'Barnack' style instead of the 30 degrees-off flattened-circular (etc.) effort it was on the M-D.

That's it.

Philip.

Edited August 2, 2021 by pippy

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[FrozenInTime]

It could work - I would add two stealth functions above absolute minimalism.

1.. dual iso - modern sensors have dual gain , so two ISO bands of 100+ and 800+ with 16bit RAW capture to allow malleability in post.

2.. viewfinder bars that briefly illuminate post exposure with one representing histogram 2% under-exposure clipping and the 2% other over-exposure clipping - if neither appear, your exposure estimate is within acceptable bounds 🙂

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by FrozenInTime

[Datsch]

@FrozenInTime Interesting points, thank you. Would you have it auto-shift from 100 to say 3200 and back depending on shutter speed? A sort of fixed, simplistic auto ISO? With an 'ISO' for 1sec on the LEDs?

I like the  mix of old school LED and advanced histo/clipping -- post exposure illumination is a nifty idea and the LEDs support a pipe symbol/ vertical line | at either end.

Actually on other cameras I prefer my clipping alerts .before. I press the shutter, and on an evf camera (see next comment) that would be possible.

 

[Datsch]

OK, I've slept on this and changed my mind completely.

Forget the M-A-D. Starting from an old film camera or even the M-D, excellent though they both are, is not the way to go.

We want minimalist, so let's start from scratch.

The new cameras, which I'm calling the MDr and the MDe, are as follows:

Top Plate: Shutter button. That's it. Yes, really!

Bottom Plate: Access for battery and SD plus tripod mount. I like the current M plate a lot so that will do, as would @pippy 's Barnack variant.

Front: M mount and lens release

Back: Nothing but the buffering LED hidden among the leather as now on the M-D

Here's how you achieve this super minimalist camera:

Exposure: Aperture priority. Works for everyone. Exposure lock on half press. Big red LED lettering for shutter speed on the MDe (EVF model) so it looks just like the MDr (Rangefinder model) and the previous Ms. Move the camera around and pick up the speed you want with the half press.You can get +/- 3EVF in most lighting conditions this way.  MDe can be multisegment.

ISO: Fixed at ISO 800. Don't worry, you have fast shutter speeds. High enough ISO for indoor shots. Fancy sensor means ISO800 looks like ISO100 and also still has enough dynamic range.

Shutter Speed: Losing the shutter speed dial means you can't force long exposures eg for lightning, astro but that's the tradeoff for simplicity. You can still get a wacking big ND filter if you want to make waterfalls go all silky.

Shutter: Goes up to 1/32000 and so is electronic. There may be no mechanical shutter at all. A dust cover automatically covers the sensor when the lens release button is pushed and when the cameras is off. The high speeds mean the ISO800 is fine in bright sunlight. Double press the lens release button to reveal the sensor for cleaning.

On-Off: Switches on when it detects an eye at the viewfinder and a half press of the shutter button. Off after 10 minutes of inactivity.

WB: Auto

60MP DNG only. Yes, you need to get a new computer too. That's life.

Hot Shoe: None. Many people will not miss a flash. If you want to go wider than 28mm (or 24mm at a pinch) then get the MDe

Battery indicator: Percent remaining shows for 2s after you triple half-press.

Images remaining: Shown after quadruple half-press.

Time set: Auto tunes in to the atomic clock radio

Firmware Update: If there's a .fw file on the SD card, the firmware updates. Take the card out and delete the .fw file. Done.

MDe Focus Aids: None. No zoom or peaking as the 5Mp or 9Mp EVF should be OK just turning the focus ring until it looks right.

MDe Icons: Just the basic LED-style lettering font in big text overlaid at the bottom to match the MDr. That's it. No fruit salad of battery life, blizzard of icons etc.

WiFi, Movie, fotos, self timer, continuous: None.  

Other stuff: I think if the feature-frenzy marketing people bent my arm you could have a system where you take a picture of a QR code on a laptop or desktop screen (it needs to be big for the 0.7m focus!). The QR code could be: custom jpg settings, lens coding, MDe focus aids, etc etc. The DNG image taken would actually be a text readout of the settings changes so you could have a record of your current settings. Hold the shutter down for 12s, up for 12 s and down again for 12s to reset all settings to factory default. I wouldn't bother with this, myself

 

So there you have it. Aperture, Focus and Framing. That's it. Das echtes Wesentliche.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Datsch

[AndreasG]

As an user of the M10-D, I only have a minimal request

• faster wake-up
• better/faster connectivity with the Fotos App
• USB-C port for charging and image transfer
• sensor with higher resolution

Everything else is still acceptable for me.

[IkarusJohn]

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I like this idea. My variant:

• No ISO - make it truly ISO invariant (fix it at base ISO for the sensor), with a warning in the viewfinder if you’ve exceeded the absolute limits
• Auto white balance, or Monochrome versions (I’d go monochrom)
• No shutter speed dial - not sure about electronic shutter only, speed shown in the viewfinder
• No frameline lever, actually no other levers at all
• I like the thumb rest on the M10-D
• No other buttons or wheels at all
• Only OVF, with EVF option in hotshoe
• On/Off back on the collar around the shutter release (with WiFi at the extra stop, no continuous option)
• But, I would like WiFi
• Only black paint with black leather (ostrich print?)

The body would then be very clean.  If the WiFi could be faster, no SD card - only internal flash memory, with WiFi transfer, or USB-C also used for charging.  No baseplate, click int click out battery. 

Without the EVF, and with your phone in your pocket, the camera would be very sleek, with only aperture and focus on the lens for controls, and shutter release button and collar around.  Black paint, no red dot, leica script on top, and black leather …

Edited August 3, 2021 by IkarusJohn

[jaapv]

I. would not like to miss the hot shoe. Where else to put my optical viewfinder for wideangle lenses?

[Datsch]

@IkarusJohn and @AndreasG I appreciate your thoughts on this. This morning I was even thinking about just a USB-C port but then I remembered that SD and internal memory does fail from time to time, and batteries have a lifetime of only so many years. So I think removable memory card and battery is still the way to go. I don't really mind how it's done; if the pop in/out is the new way, that's fine -- as long as the battery is pretty hefty -- I like getting 800 -1000 shots ...

Re: WiFi, how would you propose to initiate it with only having the shutter button? Seems a shame to have a whole new button just for Wifi ... that's a 100% increase in button count ... 🙂

(EDIT: perhaps there could be an insert for the hot shoe (which may be worth retaining see below) that initiates Wifi ... plug it in to start, if has a flashing LED on it, and yank it out to finish ...?)

 

@jaapv Thinking about the hotshoe, the EVF version of this fantasy camera, the MDe is what you need for wider lenses. But I like a nice shoe mount optical viewfinder too, now and again ... perhaps a Cold Shoe would keep things simple? Or just concede that a hot shoe is still part of the essentials and also allow the shoe mount EVF at the same time ...  that would pretty much ditch the need for a separate MDe, and keep it rangefinder all the way ...

Thanks all for your comments on the 'one button camera' ...

Edited August 3, 2021 by Datsch

[AndreasG]

In case of an USB-C port, would we need the WiFi functionality? Everything "remote" could be done by wire.

[jaapv]

No need for an EVF on a rangefinder IMO. A cold shoe and a flash socket. No TTL flash. KISS.  Long live PF1 bulbs!  

[IkarusJohn]

2 hours ago, AndreasG said:

In case of an USB-C port, would we need the WiFi functionality? Everything "remote" could be done by wire.

That’s. Very true.

 Thinking further, the idea of the cleanest form is a good one.  So what is really essential, and how do you deal with it?

Body - Start with the M10 form factor (no removable baseplate, no screen, no dials and no buttons) and lose everything on it other that the mount and the optical view finder.

Exposure -What exposure control would we need?  If ISO can truly be fixed at, say 180 or 360, are sensors good enough for highlight and shadow recovery in post?  I was taught to get the best exposure you can when you expose the image.  That said, my preference would be a monochrome, for which I would (and do) accept Auto ISO, but with -2/3 exposure compensation.

Shutter - on reflection, I like to control shutter speed, so the shutter dial would stay.

On/Off - return of the collar around the shutter release button, with three settings, Off, On and WiFi.  

WiFi - Why WiFi?  Well, I use my phone for remote triggering, reviewing images over a coffee afterwards, and would download select images if it was reliable.  It could also be used to set location, time and date, and adjust exposure compensation or base ISO if needed.  For those who don’t want WiFi, it would just be a setting on the switch, like the never used continuous setting on the M9.  You could just ignore that one click.

Hotshoe - for an external viewfinder.  I like the current optical viewfinder, but there are times the EVF is useful - for wides beyond 28mm; for exposure simulation when that is important; and its 90 degree flip up setting, though remote triggering with the phone is probably better.

SD card - flash memory is fast, reliable and small, whereas SD cards are not so much.  When will they become obsolete …

Battery - as large as possible, and click in click out.

USB C - charging in camera (great option for travel); remote triggering for those who don’t want WiFi; quick and reliable downloads; and the ability to adjust settings on the odd occasion.

That would leave a clean camera with aperture, focus and shutter controls, USB slot somewhere, large removable battery, fixed baseplate, hotshoe and an on/off switch at the shutter release button.  The hotshoe could be lost at a pinch …

 

 

[JonPB]

I like the thought experiment.

It sounds to me like you’re describing an M-mount phone-camera with better ergonomics and no display. I think there might be appeal to that, but not under the M badge.

Aperture priority is very slow when you don’t like the camera’s evaluation. Half-press and recompose would exclude a number of photographers who cannot operate the button with that precision, say due to gloves in the cold or neuromotor challenges. And shooting a series with consistent exposure would be maddening. If dials are bothersome, then an AE-L button might be an alternative, but I appreciate being able to check exposure settings at a glance, even before the camera turns on.

A base ISO of 800 would be delightful if it came with two stops worth of improvement in color and tone discernment, but I’m not sure that’s how it works. I’m not willing to throw away the opportunity for maximum quality for convenience just to avoid having to decide which I want to prioritize, though.

On-off: eye sensors merely detect light, with darkness implying the user’s face is nearby, so the camera would turn on frequently when in a bag. And it would turn off when removed from the eye for a low-angle or overhead shot. Maybe combine with a capacitance sensor to detect skin or similar material? That’s an unintuitive complexity, though. I think removing the power switch is a design statement, not a useful feature.

An accessory shoe is a must, though if the base camera merely has a threaded anchor with a plug and I have to add the shoe as an accessory, that’d be fine. Bonus points if the plug also covers up a wired flash sync socket.  If I was okay with an EVF, I wouldn’t be shooting an M. Or provide an EVF with enough dynamic range to comfortably compress the full visual dynamic range continuous monitoring; self-lit pixels are moving in that direction, but I suspect we’re 10+ years away from anything I’d consider more than tolerable.

If an electronic shutter is global or even reads out as fast as a mechanical one, great. Otherwise, stopping motion and shooting in artificial light will be showstopping issues.

Unaided focus will only be acceptable when the focus screen is as visually large as the final output on close inspection. Like other aids on an M, it isn’t necessary all or even most of the time, but they do serve a purpose. I suppose this only applies to an EVF version, though, which would be a nonstarter for me anyhow.

I like the QR code to apply settings idea. Faster than wifi, easy to store, replicate, share, and troubleshoot.

So, backing up, which of those removals that I find limiting might be useful not in a general purpose camera (as if an M were that already) but for a narrower niche than an M-D?

I think exposure controls are non-negotiable. Automation with the ability to immediately override is fine. But having automation as default would best be implemented with computational approaches: applying adaptive auto-levels, local contrast, and other enhancements to the live stream in order to optimize image capture settings. In my mind, the shutter dial is not a burden but an essential part of the very definition of intentional photography. It need not retain the same form, place, or interface, though.

Sensitivity is also an exposure control, but whereas film emulsions could be formulated over a continuous range and readily interchanged, sensors are fixed in camera and rarely have more than two actual sensitivity options. I think the interface should provide control over the tool, not control of a facsimile of another tool as a wrapper around the actual instrument. “ISO” should be discarded except in between-camera comparisons; the camera’s sensitivity should be controlled with a toggle; and the practical purpose of “ISO” on digital cameras served, if at all, by exposure compensation. If exposure is manual, exposure compensation can also be done manually, so that is not needed here.

Here’s where I make a suggestion that other people will discard like I have done above—

Let’s get rid of framelines.

Framelines require the entire viewfinder to include a beam splitter; without them, only the rangefinder patch and indicators would need an image overlay, so the rest of the finder could be as bright as accessory finders and the finder itself might be easier to offer in multiple magnifications.

Framelines are useful learning a new lens, but when I’m in a flow I am oblivious to them as I have already previsualized the angle of view. Then, I use the finder to tweak focus, exposure, and placement. This wouldn’t be a camera for learning whether you want to shoot 35 or 50; this would be a camera for people who already see the results and just need tools to help them share what they see with other people. The rangefinder patch indicates frame center, the rest is left to the photographer’s skill; this doesn’t strike me as radically different from the coarse but predictable simplicity of center-weighted metering.

Thus, my proposal for a minimalist M:

- Shutter button with half-press, full-press, and mechanical release threading.

- Around the shutter, in the front, is the exposure toggle. Push left a bit to increase speed by a half stop, more for a full stop, or all the way for two stops. Pull for the opposite. This makes it easy to slam the toggle in response to a rapid change in light without spinning the shutter dial halfway around; it retains the directional muscle memory of M shooters; and it moves this key adjustment closer to the shutter release.

- Show shutter speed in the viewfinder for two seconds after changing its value, whether from auto or manual changes. Show metering gauges on either side of the speed values. This value won’t be visible otherwise, which is unfortunate; but there are times when I want to see the actual speed in the finder, not just relative metering evaluations. Win some, lose some.

- Add an indicator to the viewfinder: solid means “buffer full,” slow blinking means “you’re not going to be able to keep shooting much longer,” and fast blinking means, “ok, love you, bye now.” Open the bottom plate to identify the cause of blinking, as you’ll have to do this anyway to replace battery or memory card. LEDs next to the battery and memory card provide the status of each; discussed below. The memory card LED also lights up if still writing when the bottom plate is open, but otherwise there is no “write in progress” indicator.

- Battery and memory are consumable. If built in, they must be user-serviceable with off-the-shelf parts for me to be interested if there is a viable alternative. In fact, the more replaceable parts the better; I think Leica could win a lot of approval by releasing component specifications to the public when a device becomes obsolete. By that time, newer devices would offer enough features to attract customers; this would do nothing to diminish the wow-factor of new products or the impulse purchase of items as luxury goods. It would, though, allow photographers to drive up used prices, making full-price items more appealing to everyone. It would also dramatically underscore how repairable some of these items are relative to mass-market competitors; it would provide further proof that Leica is more than just a prestige brand, of how quality extends well beyond marketing spec sheets. Bury trade secrets within each component, if need be, but allow us the opportunity to design replacements to spec in the decades to come. Engineers in growing economies can do amazing things with their entirely different set of risk/reward choices than folks like me experience in the pinnacle economies; give them a chance to contribute and maybe open up a whole new potential employment pool for Leica. But I digress.

- Around the shutter, in the back, is the sensitivity toggle. As a concession to the fact that not everybody loves watching light, it might have an A setting, so, if the sensor has base and amplified readouts, the toggle options would be: base sensitivity, amplified sensitivity, and aperture-priority exposure with auto-selection of sensitivity. In A mode, the front toggle becomes exposure compensation.

- The on-off switch moves to under the baseplate. This assumes the camera will power down quickly enough to save power, but will start back up again from a warm state in less than 50ms. I suspect this will require keeping at least part of the sensor package powered on but idle, so a large and extremely low leakage capacitor might be necessary… but this is a niche of a niche camera, so make it happen. The result, though, is that you turn the camera on after inserting the battery, and only need to turn it off when done shooting — when, often enough, you’ll be removing the card anyhow. A mild inconvenience when placing the camera in a bag, say, for lunch; this is outweighed by the “set and forget” convenience in a camera that is actively and continuously used, not strapped on in case a photo op might arise.

- Moreover, the SD card becomes the power switch. The well is deep enough so that the card can be mechanically retained and easily gripable when electrically released. Pushing the card in to make electrical connections turns the camera on; pushing it again to release it turns the camera off and electrically disconnects the card, but mechanically holds the card so it won’t fall out.

(Yes, I’m saying the rumor of moving away from the baseplate disappoints me. It does leave a first impression of affectation, but opening it simultaneously exposes those vulnerable bits that most cameras protect behind multiple small hinges and grit-prone gaskets. Gaskets are good, but they fail, and failure of them on a small hatch means no protection while failure of a gasket around a plate still leaves pretty good protection. Plus, I like the heft of brass for stability and its malleability in camera-killing accidents, which combine well with the thinness and rigidity of magnesium in the core and inner shell. The feel of air pressure when opening or closing the plate provide an aesthetic sense of a well-made machine, which would be an affectation if it weren’t necessitated by the aforementioned functionality. Yet the baseplate is in no way essential to make an M.)

- The top plate has a 3/8” threaded anchor where the hot shoe would go. At the bottom of the well is a PC sync connector. (I can’t recall how much clearance those cables generally require, though.) The threading has a stop like on the screwed-in lens hoods to align screwed-in accessories. A simple flush-fit plug would be standard; Leica could provide a basic screw-in hotshoe; and third parties could provide affordable cold shoe options. In addition to being cleaner than a shoe-filling plate for most people and providing a flash sync for studio shooters, this would likely be a mechanically superior connection for add-on thumb grips. TTL is out, but that seems insignificant for this camera’s intended audience.

- No framelines, but a brighter finder with the potential for magnification options.

- In jest, some users might want a time-lock device on the lens release. You said you wanted to shoot one lens for a month, right?

- Of course: raw files only, although the thumbnails can be set to a jpg style like in other cameras.

- Finally, advanced customization. Under the bottom plate is another toggle-and-button combo with four settings. First, save current settings to jpg image of a QR code. Second, take a photo to read a QR code and apply settings; blink indicator lights appropriately. Third, reset to defaults. Last, status check; blink the SD and battery LEDs once for >75% remaining, twice for >50%, four times for >25%, and solid for <10%. Push the button to perform the action, which will turn the camera on then off if needed. Close the bottom cover and the switch reverts to status check.

 

In sum: the shooting interface has two toggles around the shutter button, the range-finding viewfinder, and the mounted lens; plus a normally flush-fit, gap-free accessory dock, strap lugs, and tripod anchor. No other interface or indicator is visible or accessible with the bottom plate in place.

Yet, none of the following functions are lost: manual control of exposure, including sensor sensitivity and potentially going past mechanical into electronic speeds; optional aperture-priority with exposure compensation; flash sync with either cable or basic hotshoe, albeit with an accessory; rangefinder focusing; center-weighted metering; arbitrary array of customization, including setting storing and sharing, albeit requiring another device (which would be easy to reverse engineer and replicate); useful status indicators for the buffer, battery, and memory card. With QR customization, things like processing settings for the raw-file thumbnail, bracketing, and auto-exposure inflection points (e.g., keep shutter speed over 1/60) remain possible.

Ignoring my suggestion to remove framelines impairs nothing else, but I do think this would be a level-up on removing the display that yields, and is necessary to yield, a substantial improvement in viewfinder brightness.

[RF’sDelight]

I like the text experiment. 😉 (13,095 characters)

[Datsch]

I wonder if a key question is now: Does the virtue and elegance of a shutter-button-only design outweigh the drawbacks?

I shot about 300 frames the past couple of days on the M-D and took a dose of my own medicine by using only aperture priority and halfpress AEL. To quote @JonPB "shooting a series with consistent exposure would be maddening" yes, you are right! It's easy enough to grab the speed you want from somewhere in the scene. But once you've taken the shot you're back to what the meter is pointing at again. So to do any kind of bracketing (and I am still learning this camera so am focus-, exposure- and aperture/DOF-bracketing a lot) requires frequent 'picking up' of the speed you want which is much more tedious than I thought it would be.

It seems that A mode and exp comp really do go hand in hand. I've nothing agains the M-D's exp comp, in fact it is robust and easy, though a quick way to reset to zero would be nice.

Ditching the shutter speed dial and the ISO dial are bold steps, and I do like it conceptually very much. The drawbacks are really quite minor. But they are drawbacks nonetheless, so you are really getting say 85% performance capability for the sake of looking cool ... a 15% loss or gap.

I think what I was hoping for is the use of recent camera innovations to overcome this performance gap ...

[JonPB]

3 hours ago, RF’sDelight said:

I like the text experiment. 😉 (13,095 characters)

I think it is understood that my screw-in accessory would be a keyboard. 🙂 

 

7 minutes ago, Datsch said:

I think what I was hoping for is the use of recent camera innovations to overcome this performance gap ...

The M9 has a snapshot mode. Has that gone away in newer models? It seems like a congruous concept. And if a plain bottom plate can be replaced by the user with one that has a multi-function grip, perhaps a user-swapable top plate that engages that simpler mode, but allows one to replace it with another for a more comprehensive range of options. Put that on an M-D and you're all set.

Anyhow. I enjoy this diversion, if that weren't obvious.

[pippy]

As someone who only ever shoots in manual mode and hardly ever carries a 'phone almost all of the ideas mooted so far are 180 degrees from what I would like.

Within the body - electronics-wise - I only want TTL metering. Add to that I want shutter speed dial; ISO dial; On/Off/Timer-Delay switch; shutter release and, of course, lens release. Nothing else. Shooting on to an SD card. Battery life with the M-D Typ-262 is fantastic. No other electric stuff inside at all.

You can see why the M10-D was not for me!.....

Philip.

[Datsch]

4 minutes ago, JonPB said:

🙂 a user-swapable top plate that engages that simpler mode, but allows one to replace it with another for a more comprehensive range of options.

That element of customisation is something at the heart of this -- I was thinking earlier today of a user-changeable top plate, one without hot shoe, the other with. And you're looking to expand that I think ... perhaps another top plate without a shutter speed dial, and so on ...

 

4 minutes ago, pippy said:

As someone who only ever shoots in manual mode and hardly ever carries a 'phone almost all of the ideas mooted so far are 180 degrees from what I would like.

My next step is to try manual mode for a week. With you on the phone and wifi part.

 

4 minutes ago, pippy said:

Within the body - electronics-wise - I only want TTL metering. Add to that I want shutter speed dial; ISO dial; On/Off/Timer-Delay switch; shutter release and, of course, lens release. Nothing else. Shooting on to an SD card. Battery life with the M-D Typ-262 is fantastic. No other electric stuff inside at all.

Maybe an M60 is in your future? (No bump) But I would miss strap lugs ...

[NigelG]

I'd like a "Pippy - plus" model:

M10 body dimensions but sans thumbwheel/bump/Iso Dial, an M-D 262/M60 rear ISO dial (which I can use with my thumbs with the camera to my eye/in the dark) with the regular off/on/cont/self shutter surround switch,  M10-D fold-out thumb rest, Visoflex compatible (inc playback) + silver chrome finish. Oh and the old "sharkskin/emeryboard" covering rather than textured leather...

Seperately as a TL2 owner I think Leica missed a trick not allowing the saving of files simultaneously onto the internal memory + the SD card. We could have jpegs saved to internal memory and RAW to SD card. Wifi connectivity (switched by the top plate function button?) would allow jpegs to be downloaded to phones/iphoto etc via FOTOS (it works fine with the dedicated TL app I have) while .dng files are on the card for processing later

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[NigelG]

8 minutes ago, Datsch said:

Maybe an M60 is in your future? (No bump) But I would miss strap lugs ...

You might miss the lugs...(see my avatar) 😀