15 years of digital Leica M - which model is your favorite and most hated?

[Steven]

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Thank you Al, for another great thread that will surely reach dozens and dozens of pages, as every other thread you start. 
 

I currently only own the M10R, because I like to shoot wide open without filters in daylight, and I focus more on film bodies recently. But to me, the real pinnacle of the digital M is the M10D. I have loved that camera for every of its details. After reading this thread, I realize that I’m not the only one. With the M10M, it seems to be the people’s favorite. 

I sold it because when I owned the M10D, I never used my film bodies anymore And it thought it was a pity … but I think it’s time to start looking for one again. They’re just so hard to come by ..

[Jon Warwick]

As an M analogue user for 2 decades before, the M240 was the only digital M that I’ve bought. I very much enjoyed the concept of using a digital M, but I was pretty ambivalent about the quality of the M240’s output (ditto the M10 that I also tried extensively), it was nothing special to my eyes and for 20” wide prints I consistently preferred what I could do with a roll of film in my M7.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Jon Warwick

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[SiggiGun]

Most loved = M10-D 

Most hated = M type 240

[jdlaing]

I don’t hate any of them. I like them all. I just like some better than others.

The least was M8.2. The best is M-240P.

[darylgo]

Casually reading through the answers, the most polarized body has been the M240 along with it's sibling the M240-P.  This makes me wonder what the M11 will bring and it's effect on the M10 body love/not love feelings.   

[EricC]

Had quite a few on looking back 

M8 Black  - 2008

M9 Black - 2010

M9 Silver Grey - 2010

M9 Black

M9 Silver Chrome - 2011

M9P - 2012

M9 - 2013  borrowed while waiting for

M240 - 2013

M246 MONOCHROM - 2015

M-P - 2016

M10 - 2017 and still here

M MONOCHROM 2020

I loved them all.

 

[MikeMyers]

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I loved the M2 and M3,  but "loved" is the wrong word - they were tools, and did what I wanted.  I was very impressed by them, and had Nikon not introduced the Nikon F SLR, I don't think I'd have changed.

I'm not sure why I would like any M film camera more than another, as I don't think the images would be any different.  It says a lot for the M3 and M2 that I still have them, and still plan to use them - most of my other old "stuff" is either gone, or getting dusty.

Digital - I loved my M8.2 because it got me back into shooting infrared photography.  I guess the M8 cameras had limitations, but they never bothered me.  I didn't want an M9, and I wasn't all that enthused with the other cameras being produced until the M10 came out.  It "fit" my hands, and it can do anything I need to do, and a lot more.  I don't see any reason to replace or upgrade it.

[Stuart Richardson]

I had the first versions of the M8, M9 and M10, and none of the P's, M's, D's etc. The M10 was the nicest camera to use, the M9 had the nicest looking images and color. The M8 took nice, sharp photos for what it was, but I was very happy to sell it in favor of the M9. The IR issue was a real pain. I remember the first time I tried it I was at PhotoPlus in New York, and I was at the Leica table. I picked up the display model and turned to take a picture of the person next to me, who was wearing a black jacket. It was very clearly bright purple on the rear screen and I said to the people at the table, "I think this camera is broken", and they said, "No, no, it is just the lighting in here". I trusted them and learned a good lesson when it arrived...thankfully it was not long until they sent out the IR filters. I still find it amazing that they let that camera out without IR filters. They must have completely ignored the beta testers...I cannot imagine what else could have happened...the problem was so obvious I think if they had anyone testing it out in the world, it would have been clear that they needed another solution.

On the other side, I still look back at M9 and S006 files and think they are the best color I have ever seen in digital. I am not sure why they do not still offer it...none of the simulations or tweaks I have seen come close to replicating it.

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Stuart Richardson

[setuporg]

17 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

On the other side, I still look back at M9 and S006 files and think they are the best color I have ever seen in digital. I am not sure why they do not still offer it...none of the simulations or tweaks I have seen come close to replicating it.

Stuart -- coming from you it's a pretty strong endorsement of a good used M9P, like those recently offered on KEH from Leica, with the updated censors, certified and with a warranty.  Do you keep one?:)

[adan]

17 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I am not sure why they do not still offer it

Can you clarify what you are not sure of?

Let's just say that "M9 color" is something not totally, or even mostly, under Leica's control. Kodak color engineers had a big part in it - and Kodak quit making sensors. Goodbye Kodak color engineering. It is rather like "why they do not still offer Kodachrome color" from an M-A or M3.

About the only place Leica has direct control of color lies in profiling the sensor output to tweak reds a little more orange or magenta (and so on for other primary colors) and add a tone curve (gamma or contrast). And that assumes you use Leica's "embedded" camera profile - use Adobe or CaptureOne profiles, and you are handing the color over to their color engineers.

And even then, the output of the specific sensor may limit just how far the data can be massaged - the reds are connected to the oranges, yellows and purples, but also to the complementary primary (cyan). Shift one, and you shift all the others.

[Al Brown]

19 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I cannot imagine what else could have happened...the problem was so obvious I think if they had anyone testing it out in the world, it would have been clear that they needed another solution.

It seems that every M generation up to M10 had a quirk... With M8 it was the IR issue, with M9 the sensor corrosion and with M (Typ240) it was the terrible green cast when opening up the shadows on the computer plus blown highlights - not really crippling but still super annoying for professional work. It seems that M10 came out well planned and sorted most of the issues. The flagship M10-R now ticks all the boxes including highlights and resolution (for those who need it) and as much as I try, I am really unable to find any quirks with this one. It only took a decade or so to get it right.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Al Brown

[shirubadanieru]

I’ve tried all Leica M digital versions besides the M240 based Monochrom.

• M9M is my favorite
• M10-D is my 2nd favorite (just for the body design that I wish they’d replicate in the newer bodies)
• M9 is my 3rd favorite
• M-D is my 4th favorite (the ISO dial here is way cooler than on the M10-D and I love the black paint)

All other cameras I didn’t enjoy anywhere near as much as the above 4 and sold them after a while. That includes the M240, M8.2, M10M, M10. 

Currently I have no digital Leicas, but depending on how attractive the M11 is I might as well get one ; p 

Edited August 23, 2021 by shirubadanieru

[jankap]

On 8/13/2021 at 9:44 AM, Al Brown said:

That camera is something. All the digital Ms without the display seemed wildly popular here on the forum yet Leica discontinued them all...

With the LCD the limitation of the distance to 70cm is not necessary any more. The new M lenses will allow 30cm(?). Just a second gear.

By the way one can cover the LCD with black tape.....

Edited August 23, 2021 by jankap

[SoarFM]

I have an endearing love for the M’s and still own my 35+ year old M6, and I bought that used.

I passed on the M8’s because as someone said, “I wanted my 35 to act like a 35”

I finally bought in at the M9 at a time when I needed  wanted a compact setup that delivered big. (I had suffered a debilitating accident with spinal cord injury and was having serious mobility issues). I used it for a few years, plagued by RF calibration issues and then I started getting red lines (single pixel, width of entire sensor) in some images, and I was frustrated at the lack of live view. I sold it all, except for my original M6 and the 35 and 50 that had been my trusty film companions. And I went down the dreadful Sony A7 path thinking I could use the Leica glass on them, but I couldn’t, it smeared at the edges even on the 50…and I set aside my Leica gear for years. Fast forward some years and I’m setting up a DSLR scanning rig with a panasonic S1R and I also have an L-M adaptor from my Leica CL kit and trying my 35 summicron on the Panasonic—and it is gorgeous with maybe a teensy tiny bit of smear at the edges. And I realize I want to use that lens again for real on an M. Within the course of a year, I have acquired the M10R, M10M and an SL2 and I’m ridding myself of all the half measures I’ve taken over the years. And I couldn’t be happier. My M10R had to go back to Germany for a rangefinder issue and I knew it would take monthas and rationalized that absence as reason to “try” (buy…) the M10M.

The M10M really surprised me. It has become my hands down favorite, followed by the SL2 and then the M10R.

  

[Stuart Richardson]

11 hours ago, adan said:

Can you clarify what you are not sure of?

 

I understand that different sensors have different characteristics, but I would assume that Leica takes seriously the way their cameras reproduce color and have influence in how their partners work to achieve those goals. Adobe does not make its profiles in a vacuum, Leica has said that they worked closely with their engineers for the S3 for example. It is there that I wish that what they came up with were more like the M9 and S006. I don't think I am alone, but I also think that color is very personal, and there are many people who do not have such warm feelings about the rendering.

I guess I am a bit biased, as when I was very early in my ownership of the M9, I did some work for a show on both 4x5 E6 (I believe E100G at the time), and I found that the color of the M9 files out of camera resembled the E6 very closely, and only minor adjustments were needed to make everything fit together. That was the first time I had such a positive experience. I had been shooting a Sinar eMotion 22 which was supposed to be great for color (I thought it was terrible), and later a Nikon D3, and both of them left me very cold. Along comes the M9 and it was just spot on (at low ISO), so I miss it for that feeling.

I no longer have the S006 (having traded it in for the S3) or the M9 (having sold it when I moved to an M10), and while I will concede that the newer versions are more practical in most measurable ways, I miss the color of those CCD cameras, and often think that I did not necessarily make the right decision.

These days I mostly use an SL2 for digital, and I think that it has the best color of the current Leica digitals that I have used.

Edit: attaching a few of those old M9 shots. I liked the punchy, natural color. The first one is a bit overedited for me these days, but they represent what I liked about it. The last two are shot on slide film. The first is Kodachrome and the last is E6 film, and both are clearly more magenta. I prefer the film color still, but the M9 was as close as I could generally get.

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Edited August 23, 2021 by Stuart Richardson

[adan]

26 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I understand that different sensors have different characteristics, but I would assume that Leica takes seriously the way their cameras reproduce color and have influence in how their partners work to achieve those goals. Adobe does not make its profiles in a vacuum, Leica has said that they worked closely with their engineers for the S3 for example. It is there that I wish that what they came up with were more like the M9 and S006.

I'm sure that is true - however, below are two versions of the same "late" M9 test picture (made when I was comparing the M10 color to the M9 - early 2017). 90mm Summarit lens.

The top one is processed using the Leica Embedded profile; the second using the Adobe Standard profile for the M9. Everything else in the post-processing for both was identical (Adobe Camera Raw, WB = 5100+5 magenta), exposure, you name it).

The point here is not to say one is "better" then the other, just to show that, whether Adobe and Leica worked together or not, what Adobe eventually came up with is a bit different that what Leica came up with. The most obvious difference is that Adobe is a bit more - generous - with spreading red around (even at the identical WB setting - see concrete), while also goosing the saturation overall, and in the yellow-through-green-to-blue part of the spectrum.

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And just for grins, here's the comparison shot with the M10 (using the Leica M10 Embedded profile but otherwise also identical default ACR settings).

[Stuart Richardson]

If you are trying to prove that profiles and processors can influence the result, I am not sure I ever said otherwise. It is immediately obvious to me that both M9 files look better to me than the M10 file in your example, especially the embedded version. I am not trying to take anything away from people who think differently, and I am also not saying that someone could not trick me or find photos where the M10 looked better to me than the M9. I just found that in the balance of the thousands of photos I took with both cameras, I consistently preferred the starting point with the Leica embedded profiles in Lightroom when using the M9, versus the same using the M10. Overall, I think the M10 is the much more modern and usable camera. I just prefer the default M9 color. That is all.

[adan]

Hey, all I was doing in the last two posts was address your query....

On 8/22/2021 at 6:31 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

I am not sure why they do not still offer it

 

[augustwest100]

Speaking to people considering a new or used Leica M:

Buy what you can afford and do not expect perfection, but rather something nicely made with some limitations. Remember that limitations are not necessarily a bad thing, and all cameras have them, it’s just that Leica slaps a red badge of honor on those limitations while other manufacturers hide limitations with an overload of features and specs. Anyone who has ever gone out on a shoot with a full frame DSLR and even just a 24-70 2.8 and a 70-200 2.8 zoom knows that all the features in the world can’t change the size and weight. 
 

Use an M if you are drawn to it, learn from it, explore new things with it. The newer ones will by and large be better, but only incrementally so. The overall experience of using a digital rangefinder has stayed fairly consistent since the M9 in my experience. I would probably have 75% of the experiences I’ve had with all my M’s if I had just kept the M9.

(I had the M9, then the M240 plus a film Mp, then M10, then no Leica (!), then M10M.)

My favorite is the M10M because it helps me to be clear about my intentions, and helps me to continue to learn. For me, I need to be always learning something new, or else photography starts to feel like “phoning it in.” With an M of any version, there is great pleasure when you start to “figure it out” and you realize that you are the one in control, not the camera.  Sometimes, the fancy digital cameras with all the features start to feel like you are riding around in the back seat of a self-driving car — lots of tech, but no control!

Now let me go take my anti-gas medication…and I’m not talking about Tums or Rollaids!

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[setuporg]

20 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I just prefer the default M9 color. That is all.

Since the purpose of every thread on this forum is to fill the gaps in your gear, I'm 100% convinced that you have to try an M9 at least one in your life.  So for those of us who joined the party with M10 or later, it's high time to get that M9 and start shooting!:)