Rethinking my digital photo storage - how do others do it?

[ianman]

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On 8/26/2021 at 10:08 PM, piran said:

I'm never going to get 5ft of water here (it's on a windy ridge) but I accept your point.

Accept it? I don’t think you understood it. The 5ft of water is one example. How about fire? Theft?.

Edited September 4, 2021 by ianman

[MarkP]

So I have two x LaCie twin removable drives. One is connected to my dedicated photography computer at home with automatic time machine backups alternating between two drives. I have a second twin drive housing sitting unpowered at work. One drive at home stays put as my main hard drive for photography storage and the other three are rotated weekly between home and work, or sooner if I’ve just done a lot on the computer. So I always have two fairly recent backups off site. Lots of redundancy. I’ve done this for years and found it to be quick and reliable.

Finally, for my favourite photos, projects, photos processed and mastered for printing/framing, and the book/exhibition I’m working on, the original raw/dng and final processed version are burned onto archival gold DVD-R.  This really the only reliable archival digital medium.

This all suits my OCD 🙄

However, I suspect the next generation will be more interested in inheriting my Leica gear than my photos 😁

Mark

 

 

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[piran]

@ianman "Pocketable primary drives and back ups in the same pocket are pretty much useless if you are wading in five feet of water. There is IMHO nothing better than off site backups which are themselves distributed in multiple locations worldwide."

Politely may I point out I specifically addressed 'your wading in five feet of water', which was the only thing you mentioned. That sort of a flood cannot happen at my location, we are on the high point of a ridge. Sadly a lot of people ARE at risk of five feet of water and I clearly said that I accept your point.

On your other water-related comment, yes, I do understand 5 feet of water given that (in my distant past) I was a trained diver/instructor and regularly took groups of divers down to between 100-120 feet of (sea) water. We did the 5 feet of water in pool training. Our 'backups' in those days were called our 'dive buddies'.

I also understand the issues of fire, theft and more urgently lately that of ransomware. Various helicopter services fly directly overhead too... but I'll take my chances. 

Personally I do not favour worldwide-other-peoples'-computers (aka clouds). I accept that others' opinions differ. Shrug, so what?

[MarkP]

DVD-Rs are waterproof 💦

[piran]

@MarkP "Finally, for my favourite photos, projects, photos processed and mastered for printing/framing, and the book/exhibition I’m working on, the original raw/dng and final processed version are burned onto archival gold DVD-R.  This really the only reliable archival digital medium."

Agreed all round, I have a large cupboard of them along with all the HDDs. Maintaining it all takes up quite a bit of time. which makes it risky that I don't really keep abreast of what should be done. If a backup isn't easy/straightforward then, sooner or later, stuff just lapses. Human nature. Let the machines do it on automatic got to be my mantra... after some four decades of experience(s):-/

Keep an  eye on the availability of the hardware... burners are not so available or popular nowadays. Sort of a fact of life as it were.

A case in point: a long time ago (before all the above) I used magneto optical stuff (MO). These are similar to rewriteable CD/DVD but wholly encased. Wonderful. Got a bit warm/hot during an extended burn. Never lost any files or pixels. Lost ALL my hardware every year or two. Then their SCSI interface too lost popularity and became outdated. The punchline is that I eventually managed to track down a single boxed new Fujitsu unit with a USB interface over on eBay at a somewhat inflated price. Used it on a marathon transfer to my 'modern' workflow and put it away with the all the Betamax, LaserDisk and Tandberg tape gear:-/ The OS, H/W, S/W AND the interfaces need to stay popular otherwise the backup chain breaks. YMMV

DVD-Rs are water-resistant 🙂 

[MarkP]

4 minutes ago, piran said:

@MarkP "Finally, for my favourite photos, projects, photos processed and mastered for printing/framing, and the book/exhibition I’m working on, the original raw/dng and final processed version are burned onto archival gold DVD-R.  This really the only reliable archival digital medium."

Agreed all round, I have a large cupboard of them along with all the HDDs. Maintaining it all takes up quite a bit of time. which makes it risky that I don't really keep abreast of what should be done. If a backup isn't easy/straightforward then, sooner or later, stuff just lapses. Human nature. Let the machines do it on automatic got to be my mantra... after some four decades of experience(s):-/

Keep an  eye on the availability of the hardware... burners are not so available or popular nowadays. Sort of a fact of life as it were.

A case in point: a long time ago (before all the above) I used magneto optical stuff (MO). These are similar to rewriteable CD/DVD but wholly encased. Wonderful. Got a bit warm/hot during an extended burn. Never lost any files or pixels. Lost ALL my hardware every year or two. Then their SCSI interface too lost popularity and became outdated. The punchline is that I eventually managed to track down a single boxed new Fujitsu unit with a USB interface over on eBay at a somewhat inflated price. Used it on a marathon transfer to my 'modern' workflow and put it away with the all the Betamax, LaserDisk and Tandberg tape gear:-/ The OS, H/W, S/W AND the interfaces need to stay popular otherwise the backup chain breaks. YMMV

DVD-Rs are water-resistant 🙂 

'Water-resistant' - yes, thanks for clarifying that.

I use: the excellent OWC Mercury Pro External USB 3.0 Blu-Ray Reader/Writer  and Verbatim DVD-R UltraLife Gold Archival Grade 4.7GB Recordable Disc  Regards Mark

[piran]

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6 hours ago, jhluxton said:

I thought having no moving parts they would be much less likely to wear out. Does anyone know there mean time to failure rate? Have they been tested? Or does that only apply if constantly updated?

It was a declared glib reference and advised  a search if more was needed. Less glibly, if you don't want to search on-line, the various recording elements have a limited number of rewrites before they stop either keeping their desired bit state or successfully toggling. To avert a particularly often changed area failing a TRIM event is run by the OS to move things around - akin to the old fashioned way we rotated tyres on a car to apparently even things up. A similar 'wearing out' analogy you might find acceptable is the number of charge/discharge cycles apparently available with rechargeable batteries. There is a built-in lifetime. It's not really wearing out if your perception is that it's a fault. In the old days a 1000hrs used to be the 'normal' lifetime of the old 100W lightbulb, when it went it didn't really wear out just that its lifetime was up after too much internal oxidation and too many thermal shocks turning on and off.

MTBF is just stats and really only vaguely meaningful to HDDs. SSDs sometimes refer to 'overcapacity' which is extra storage available for the OS to bring into play when storage elements reach their lifetime limits. You might need to read up on some of this stuff if you have concern(s).

Backup storage is really gentle on SSD lifetimes... eg quite the opposite to OS using the pagefile/scratchpad virtual memory storage on say an HDD!

[piran]

22 minutes ago, MarkP said:

I use: the excellent OWC Mercury Pro External USB 3.0 Blu-Ray Reader/Writer  and Verbatim DVD-R UltraLife Gold Archival Grade 4.7GB Recordable Disc

Buffalo BRXL-16U3-EU USB 3.0 External Blu-ray Drive/Pioneer BD-RW BDR-209M USB
Now just using up various stocks of Verbatims (from DVDr 4.7GB to BD 25GB).
I can't devote/afford enough time now and certainly won't expect anything better IDC.
Expect my stuff to be using large portable SSDs ...awaiting 'in-stock' email from SanDisk.

[psmith2383]

I have enjoyed the conversation about storage. Like most posters, Im OCD about backup.  Use reliable 2-4-and 8TB HD.  Also love my LeCie units I can use with my macbook pro when away. and need to store images in pocket size unit.

  I have been having BIG problem with cloud storage with company called Dropbox.  Supposed to be hot stuff but month ago I got message that I was denied access to my paid up account.  No reason stated.  Sent email to me that they would contact me briefly to tell me how ro access account.  A Month and no word. They have rules (no porn or copyright stuff uploaded) and I'm saving nothing like that.   

I do like cloud storage and am able to share photos with family and friends and clients.  I can send link to client of a series I want to publish.  Stuff like that. 

I think those who want to use any company should beware: 

1 .Most cloud storage companies want pay by year contract (paid last July and can't stop auto-renewal until next year.

2. Dropbox Forum shows numerous instances of customers' accounts being denied for no reason. Check users views on customer service before agreeing to use the company. This company's users report Dropbox is not subject to US laws so no legal recourse, at least I have not heard of..

I still have everything on multiple HD but cloud storage is useful, if a company that takes service seriously.

Ideally, you need company that does not limit upload image size, has large storage space option, has reasonable price, and history of good customer service. If you have service you like that has these features, share with us.  Not arguing that HD is an anachronism, just that cloud storage has some added features.

 

[jhluxton]

It is several months since I asked about off computer storage.

I have born in mind comments here and on another group as well as scoured reviews. 

This has certainly not been something I rushed into and have finally decided on a solution.

Well I had to before I started serious shooting in 2022 as I would be out of storage. 

Anyway I have decided on a G-Drive 12TB Raid external drive which I have now ordered and should be delivered by the weekend. 

Basically an enclosure with removable replaceable drives and 5year warranty. 

As well as USB it also supports Thunderbolt thus when it comes to upgrading my PC which I intend to do in the next two years it is future proof! 

 

John

 

 

[yeatts]

I enjoyed this thread, in part because I've only recently thought through and invested in a solution to storage myself.

I currently run a Synology NAS with dual 4TB drives that is on my network. I keep all of my raw files on the NAS and work directly off it. Although the NAS is on my network it is essentially hard wired in that it is directly connected via ethernet cable to my Wi-Fi satellite and the satellite is directly connected to the docking station via ethernet cable. At one point I moved the NAS elsewhere in the house and was trying to work off it via a satellite that was not directly connected and Lightroom was barely functional.

I have a subscription to BackBlaze (highly recommend) which copies my NAS nightly while I'm sleeping per the schedule I set. Most of my better images that get uploaded to social media and my website pass through Apple devices and are essentially mirrored via my Cloud backup subscription.

The major flaw in this setup is trying to work in Lightroom off files stored on a NAS. When and if I upgrade my computer, I will likely get one with a 1-2TB drive and initially copy files to the hard drive and eventually offload them to the NAS at some weekly/monthly cadence. I suspect Lightroom will perform better using this method.

Like one of the other posters, I tend to keep too many photos and do this in part for historical purposes. I enjoy the history embedded in 2+ decades of photographs, even if the "out takes" have little artistic value.

 

[John Robinson]

I use a NAS (actually, a Linux box with small RAID attached over eSATA) to back up files from the Windows 10 PC where I run Capture One against internal disks.  I would not try to run Capture One against the NAS.  Even with GE interfaces on the PC and the Linux machine attached directly to the same ethernet switch, the maximum throughput peaks at about 750Mbits/sec.  Internally, the disks can read and write at upwards of 100Mbytes/sec (800Mbits/sec and counting).  It is a case of looking for the bottlenecks.  Short of investing in 10Gbit/sec interfaces and assuming the internals of the PC are reasonably fast (SATA3 disks at 6Gbit/sec, bus speed between 2.5 and 5 Gbit/sec), the network will be the bottleneck,

These observations are based on using a tower PC with lots of internal space for drive bays, RAM, CPU etc.  For an iMac it might be different but the general principle would be the same:  use directly-attached disks for work, NAS for backup.  On an iMac I guess that disks attached to Thunderbolt ports are probably faster than USB3 but I haven't really tried running Capture One on an iMac except against a (space-limited) internal disk so your mileage on Mac may vary.

[tivoli]

I'm not the most organized person and am also an image hoarder. I probably have close to 12tb of images and I have 6tb (so far) uploaded at photoshelter.com. It's $50 a month for unlimited storage and it's very easy to upload and download images and to sort them in various ways. Best solution I've found so far that's easy to access between my desktop, laptop and having secure storage.

[jhluxton]

Time for an update on my G-RAID 12TB drive which I opted for as a storage solution.

Certainly a very well made piece of kit the all metal construction gives a lot of confidence. 

Out of the box it is Apple ready - but being a PC user setting up is a bit more involved. 

A miniscule leaflet shows one how to connect up all drawing  - but just plugging in nothing happens! 

There is no text other than directing to the SanDisk web site to register the drive. 

Once there one can find the WIndows Drivers - but you have to go looking! 

Once downloaded and run one can set the drive up. Used in RADI 1 mirror mode the 12TB becomes 6TB.

However, and again there is no instruction for this, one has to go into the computer settings to assign a drive letter. It is not like most external drives which are automatically assigned letters. Anyway after around 45 minutes of fiddling I was up and running.

it is connected by USB3 to my PC. My previous external drives mainly 2TB models were slow - this is much, much faster and I imagine even faster if a Thunderbolt connection is used. 

My 2011 to 2020 directory of images (520GB)  which typically had to be left overnight to back up from PC to an ordinary external - was completed in under 2 hours. 

Anyway all my processed JPGS from 2000 to 2021 are now on the the new drive.

At present the DNG files remain on the hard drive of the PC - though I have put backups of these onto the G-RAID.

Anyway I have now reclaimed almost 1TB of space on my PC hard drive. 

That will keep me going for a while or more likely to around this time next year when I intend to upgrade the PC. 

If I need more external space these G-RAID drives can be daisy chained.

Incidentally as belt and braces I am still keeping a back up of the G-RAID stored files on compact external drives as these are an easy portable back up copy kept with me when I am away. 

[hirohhhh]

Some of my sloppiest snapshots turned into beautiful prints, years after I looked them again with a fresh pair of eyes. NEVER delete your negatives.

[P1505]

I keep everything waiting for retirement to choose what to keep and what to bin.

All RAW onto Lightroom. FreeFileSync keeps a backup in an external drive. Backblaze for cloud storage. Automated, cheap, easy.

This year I’ll need to upgrade my internal drive to a 4TB just for images as I’ve gone medium format and use more space.

[wda]

50 minutes ago, P1505 said:

I keep everything waiting for retirement to choose what to keep and what to bin.

All RAW onto Lightroom. FreeFileSync keeps a backup in an external drive. Backblaze for cloud storage. Automated, cheap, easy.

This year I’ll need to upgrade my internal drive to a 4TB just for images as I’ve gone medium format and use more space.

All the more reason to start deleting the obvious non-keepers before the task becomes too onerous.

[P1505]

19 minutes ago, wda said:

All the more reason to start deleting the obvious non-keepers before the task becomes too onerous.

Recently I started to like some of my obviously crap photos. Storage is cheap.

[wda]

15 minutes ago, P1505 said:

Recently I started to like some of my obviously crap photos. Storage is cheap.

Then simply dilute the number of similars.

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[P1505]

2 hours ago, wda said:

Then simply dilute the number of similars.

You’re determined to save me space. I’m determined to get a new drive.

Your way is cheaper. My way helps save me from this 12 year old drive failing