Material used in vintage R lenses

[MaxRed]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hello,

Does anyone know what are the 1970-1995 (v1 and v2) Summicron Leica R lenses made of? And if they contain lead like the zeiss contax lenses?

and if yes which part of the glass. 

Thanks. 

[AndreasG]

The anodized aluminium parts most probably contain lead in a concentration of approx. 0.5-1.5%, which is added to the alloy for better machining.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Alon]

Interesting but why are you asking?

I was curious at some stage as I had in my hands the same focal lens  but manufactured in different years.

The metal parts were not discussed. The black shroud had few issues and the glass bake had  different optical transmission values .

The main take away issue is none of the above but the glass coating which was different  through the years.

For the record. I am referring to my experience with  R lenses

[MaxRed]

5 hours ago, AndreasG said:

The anodized aluminium parts most probably contain lead in a concentration of approx. 0.5-1.5%, which is added to the alloy for better machining.

thanks for the answer
Do you know when Leica stopped adding lead to their lenses?

[MaxRed]

3 hours ago, Alon said:

Interesting but why are you asking?

I was curious at some stage as I had in my hands the same focal lens  but manufactured in different years.

The metal parts were not discussed. The black shroud had few issues and the glass bake had  different optical transmission values .

The main take away issue is none of the above but the glass coating which was different  through the years.

For the record. I am referring to my experience with  R lenses

I am concerned about if lead went into the making of these lenses. I am currently considering getting a summicron 1980-1990 but would not want to have a health hazard in the house. 
I think leica should mention the components and materials used for their lenses. 

[AndreasG]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb MaxRed:

Do you know when Leica stopped adding lead to their lenses?

No idea, best, you contact Leica Germany. I think within in the EU lead in aluminium alloys was allowed until 2018 plus a transition period until 2021. Anyhow, I consider the health risk from an old Summicron lens due to lead content in the alloy as negligible.

[adan]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Which focal length? You didn't say.

Summicron-Rs were made in 35mm, 50mm, 90mm, and 180mm versions. Each/all of those likely used different glass types.

The 50mm Summicron-R v.2 was made from 1976 until 2007.

It is identical in optical formula (shapes and types of glass) to the 50mm Summicron-M v.4/5 introduced in 1979 - and still made today. (The only differences between the M v4 and v5 lies in external cosmetics: focus tab or not, lens hood built in or not, newer anti-reflective coatings.)

(Erwin Puts, Leica Lens Compendium, 2001, pp. 123-124)

That suggests to me that the 50mm Summicron-R/M is/was not subject to restrictions on leaded glass - because it contains no leaded glass. Otherwise Leica would have had to recalculate and reshape the glass to account for that change, sometime between 1976-2007 or 1979-today. Which didn't happen.

Leica, of course, did use heavy-metal glass for many, many years, for its special light-bending abilities.

Leica used even more - interesting - heavy metals in the glass of the 1954-69 50mm Summicrons for the M (and the military 50mm ELCAN f/2.0 in the 1970s): radioactive Thorium and/or Lanthanum oxides.

https://lhsa.org/2018/09/rare-earth-glass-leica-lenses-a-quick-and-quirky-overview/

[masjah]

I wouldn't worry about lead in glass. What about a decanter and tumblers or a cut glass vase made out of lead crystal? These have got a high proportion of lead and we're happy to drink out of them.

I don't know about small quantities of lead in an aluminium alloy. Does the metallurgical structure permit the lead content actually to be available for absorption by hands? I doubt it. From a health viewpoint, I'm not giving it a thought.

 

 

[pfoto]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb MaxRed:

I am concerned about if lead went into the making of these lenses. I am currently considering getting a summicron 1980-1990 but would not want to have a health hazard in the house. 
I think leica should mention the components and materials used for their lenses. 

stepping out of the house is probably more dangerous

[AndreasG]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb adan:

That suggests to me that the 50mm Summicron-R/M is/was not subject to restrictions on leaded glass - because it contains no leaded glass.

Just for information, the use of lead (oxide) in glass for optical application is still allowed within the European Union. This exemption is mentioned in Annex III, 13a, of the European Union Directive 2011/65/EU, which regulates the lead content in various devices.

[davidmknoble]

Agreed on not being a health hazard by using these old R glass lenses. The lead would have a hard time leaking from the glass elements, and many elements may even be on the inside. There is probably more bad things in the plastics we have today than there is in the casing of a Leica lens made of aluminum.  Think batteries. Think plastic drinking containers and restaurant leftover containers.

Edited August 4, 2021 by davidmknoble

[Michael Geschlecht]

3 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

Agreed on not being a health hazard by using these old R glass lenses. The lead would have a hard time leaking from the glass elements, and many elements may even be on the inside. There is probably more bad things in the plastics we have today than there is in the casing of a Leica lens made of aluminum.  Think batteries. Think plastic drinking containers and restaurant leftover containers.

Hello David,

And think of the worst of them all which is: The refined carbohydrates that are in the restaurant leftover containers.

Best Regards,

Michael

[wizard]

Am 1.8.2021 um 19:18 schrieb MaxRed:

.. but would not want to have a health hazard in the house. 

I believe there is some misunderstanding here. Lead as such (it is a solid material) does not present any health hazard at all. It does not evaporate or otherwise contaminate air. However, if you use drinking cups or water tube made from lead (as the old Romans did), then there will be a health hazard over time, since small quantities of lead will dissolve in water and so may end up in your body. Lead in optical glass and lead in metal compositions, however, is chemically bound and is thus safely trapped in the optical glass or metal composition. You would only run a risk if eating the optical glass or metal composition. 

To make a long story short, even if some optical glass of older Leica lenses were to contain lead, there is absolutely no personal health risk involved.

Cheers,

Andy

[andrew01]

I think leaded glass is actually a positive attribute in lenses since it gives better optical properties (higher refractive index, which influences the optical design).  It is no coincidence that some of the best lenses have leaded glass.  The only health risk is for the factory workers during manufacturing when the lenses are being ground.

On the subject of health risks from old lenses, thoriated glass is something that concerns me more and I have decided not to keep these lenses (eg Pentax Super Tak 50mm f1.4).  There are many debates about the relative safety of thoriated lenses.  It is most likely no more dangerous than having a couple of extra dental xrays per year.  My choice is to err on the side of caution with these lenses.

 

[ph.]

Usually one does not eat leitz lenses, nor grind them po a powder and inhale. When lead antiknock compounde were added to car fuel everyone had to inhale, and when lead oxide paints were common houseinteriors were a constant hazard so intact lenses should not worry anyone- 

 

p.

[dkCambridgeshire]

On 8/1/2021 at 6:18 PM, MaxRed said:

I am concerned about if lead went into the making of these lenses. I am currently considering getting a summicron 1980-1990 but would not want to have a health hazard in the house. 
I think leica should mention the components and materials used for their lenses. 

Do people stop attending church because the roof is made of lead?  

You are likely worrying unnecessarily 

[mbphotox]

On 9/2/2021 at 5:11 PM, dkCambridgeshire said:

Do people stop attending church because the roof is made of lead?  

You are likely worrying unnecessarily 

I hope they find many more and better reasons to stop attending church, but I'm not going to go into detail here.

(Being forced to attend catholic services multiple times a year as a "treat" that comes with my line of work...