Buying a long lens for occasional use on my Leica M10

[david.kize]

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In July 2018 I bought from Leica Miami a used APO Telyt-M 135mm f/3.4  for $1,795.  I determined from the serial number that it was one of the earlier ones, but it was in mint condition and has perfomed flawlessly except for my own shortcomings.  Even today, I cannot tell its condition apart from Leica lenses that I have purchased new.

Even so, I don't use the 135mm very often and prefer (because I am lazy) to use it handheld and with the M10's normal rangefinder.  I don't look at the LCD screen or use a magnifier.  I think that if I did find more uses for the 135mm, I would need to use some of these other things in order to have more shots in better focus.  I just find that if I am after wildlife, it's too easy to use my Nikon D500 or D800 with a telephoto lens, instead.

David

[MikeMyers]

On 8/12/2021 at 6:28 PM, david.kize said:

it's too easy to use my Nikon D500 or D800 with a telephoto lens, instead.

For me it's D750 or Df, but I agree.  

Of course, carrying around my M10 and a few lenses takes very little space, and my Nikon gear takes a lot more.  I'll see how things work out when I get my lens back - B&H have it back, and supposedly have sent it out for repair.  

I know why I use my M10 rather than my Fuji.  I'm not sure why I use my M10 instead of my Df.  Both have advantages, but the longer the lens, the more advantages there are for the DSLR.

Hmm, $1,795.  I will never use my telephoto enough to justify that much $$, but I assume it performs better than the TeleElmar?  To be truthful, I can't even justify spending the $650 that I did spend.  I guess I'm going to need to stop down to get enough depth of field, AND use a rather high shutter speed if I'm shooting hand-held.  

[adan]

2 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

Hmm, $1,795.  I will never use my telephoto enough to justify that much $$, but I assume it (135 APO-Telyt) performs better than the TeleElmar?

A little more "clarity and contrast" than the TE, but only 1-2% more resolution (your 135 TE is very hard to beat in that department, especially by f/5.6). Removes the faint red color fringes of the TE at f/4.0 - it deserves its APO designation. Can be 6-bit coded (and recent ones since 2013-ish come that way from the factory). Lighter by 100g. Built-in lens hood. The f/3.4 aperture does improve low-light shutter speed a notch (1/90th > 1/125th, etc.)

BUT - it has a strong tendency to produce veiling flare from light reflecting inside the long empty barrel behind the last glass lens element (light sources like stage spots or setting sun just outside the picture area). And it has a shorter focus throw (120° vs 180° for the TE) that requires more fingertip precision.

A lens I like (esp. the 454g weight) - except that a large % of my 135 pictures are towards the setting sun, or into stage spotlights for concert pix. Where the darn flare tendency is fatal.

I keep trying the APO - and keep going back to a TE, for my work.

But if you stick with side- or front-light (or include the setting sun in the picture), a pretty good deal when under $2200 used. Probably the "best" 135mm ever made - except perhaps for some of the exotic f/2.0s (Zeiss, Nikon, Canon) which are much bigger and heavier. And even then......?

Some examples:

 

[MikeMyers]

Very impressive.  I think I'm going to be very happy with the lens once it is fixed and returned to me, assuming the repair technician knows what he's doing.  Thanks also for the warning about things to avoid.  As to the setting sun - I enjoy photos like that.  Apparently it might be an issue.  I guess I'll find out.  As to resolution though, I'm very pleased at what I see in that discussion you linked to!

[MikeMyers]

On 8/17/2021 at 12:54 AM, adan said:

A little more "clarity and contrast" than the TE, but only 1-2% more resolution (your 135 TE is very hard to beat in that department, especially by f/5.6). Removes the faint red color fringes of the TE at f/4.0 - it deserves its APO designation. Can be 6-bit coded (and recent ones since 2013-ish come that way from the factory). Lighter by 100g. Built-in lens hood. The f/3.4 aperture does improve low-light shutter speed a notch (1/90th > 1/125th, etc.)

BUT - it has a strong tendency to produce veiling flare from light reflecting inside the long empty barrel behind the last glass lens element (light sources like stage spots or setting sun just outside the picture area). And it has a shorter focus throw (120° vs 180° for the TE) that requires more fingertip precision.

It didn't take as long as I expected to get my lens repaired.  I just received it today, and I can't tell it from a brand new lens.  I looked at the rear element, which now looks "concave", and took a few test shots - to say I am impressed would be a huge understatement.   I'll post one or two sample photos later today or tomorrow, but it's everything I hoped for, and a lot more.  I'll also try out out shooting more or less into the sun, to see how bad the flare is.

I put it on my M10 for testing, and after using my M3 and M2 film Leica's for the past few weeks, it was wonderful to be driving an M10 again.  

[tobey bilek]

M2 & 3 were system cameras b/4 slr.  They still work,  but finding components in decent condition is more than difficult.  Most of mine came from the 1980s and it was hard then.

 

 

[MikeMyers]

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Plan "B", if the M3 can't be repaired by Don at DAG Cameras, is to buy a new film Leica.   I can post the email I sent to him describing my M3 if you're interested.  If he can fix it, the cost will likely be between a few hundred dollars and a thousand.  The new camera will be many thousands.  In the meantime, I've got my M8.2 (works great), my M10 (works great) and my M2  (I just dropped off a roll of film from it to get processed - hopefully it is working fine, but I'm sure it will need a  visit to Don to make it right.)

As to the Tele-Elmar, I took a few more photos with it today - haven't got them into my computer yet, but I was thrilled with the results.  I hope to get to use it some more tomorrow.  I'll post one of my test photos as soon as I get the images transferred to my computer, probably tomorrow afternoon.

[MikeMyers]

I finally got a chance to try out my new (to me) 135mm Tele Elmar, now that it's been fixed.  Here is one of the first results.  I shot with the Visoflex, as otherwise I'm not sure how well I could focus.  First time I've actually made use of the Visoflex too...  I'll post another tomorrow.

How can I set the Visoflex to stay in the "enlarged, focus aid" mode?  Is this possible

As for the lens, if I do my part, I think it's wonderful.  Not too big, light, easy to use, and it does everything I hoped it could do (if I do my part).

 

 

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[MikeMyers]

I probably didn't ask my question very well - maybe I can do better.  I was trying to capture photos of an "Ibis" bird, and some iguanas, neither of which would hold still, so I was constantly fighting for the best focus.  With the M10, as I start to turn the focus control, the Visoflex goes into a special mode where red appears when the focus is perfect, but this goes away, and by the time I want to take the photo, the head has shifted enough that my focus may not still be correct.  Is there a way to turn on this focus assist, so it "stays on"?

Photographing the Ibis was as much luck as skill - if the bird remained still, I got what I wanted, but as it moved its head around, I was always fighting for focus.  

On the other hand, the iguanas were much better at this - once they took a position, I had more than enough time to get my shot before they moved, but I had to move very slowly to get close enough, preferably while the lizard was looking away from me.  I had the feeling it was always aware of me, so I tried not to do anything it might consider threatening.  The full image clearly shows how little depth of field I had.  (And a big thank you for all the earlier responses to this thread - I'm now glad I stuck with it, and forced B&H to fix it.  

I'll copy below the "full" image of the above photo, and also a 100% crop.  I couldn't be happier with the lens.

I didn't do as well with the Ibis - the eye looked "fuzzy" in every photo I took.  Maybe it was just a very old bird.....

 

I also learned a little about the history of this lens:  https://casualphotophile.com/2020/10/12/leitz-tele-elmar-135mm-f-4-review/

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[rcusick]

I was surprised how good the Leica elmar r 180mm is.  Lightweight and sharp. Compatible with teleconverters to get to 360mm at 2x.  Below is at 2x with a non apo teleconverter.  Also super cheap. I got mine for $300. 

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Edited September 28, 2021 by rcusick

[MikeMyers]

I never heard of this lens - which cameras is it made for?  I'm guessing that a Leica M is not on the list....

[rcusick]

Leica r.  Use on m10r or sl with an adapter. 

[KFo]

3 hours ago, rcusick said:

Leica r.  Use on m10r or sl with an adapter. 

I’m looking for that combo now, 180 + APO 2x + adapter R-M.

Any tips on the adapters?  I ran into quite a bit of variability in quality buying M39-M adapters.  How are the R-M adapters?

[rcusick]

9 hours ago, KFo said:

I’m looking for that combo now, 180 + APO 2x + adapter R-M.

Any tips on the adapters?  I ran into quite a bit of variability in quality buying M39-M adapters.  How are the R-M adapters?

I use the Leica adapters m quality is excellent.  I bought the r to m adapter paired with the m to l adapter.  I went cheap on the teleextender and bought the non apo version.  It works fine for me.  But the consensus seems to be to buy the apo extender.  

[KFo]

13 hours ago, rcusick said:

I use the Leica adapters m quality is excellent.  I bought the r to m adapter paired with the m to l adapter.  I went cheap on the teleextender and bought the non apo version.  It works fine for me.  But the consensus seems to be to buy the apo extender.  

Thanks!  I think I will stick with the Leica adapter as well.  

Yesterday I made a deal for an  APO180 f3.4 R and an APO 2X converter.  My local shop had everything but the R-M adapter on hand;  they will have one in a day. I can go in, test the rig and hopefully walk out with the complete setup.

[MikeMyers]

The longer the lens, the easier it gets, and the less my Leica feels appropriate, or even capable.  The Visoflex helps, but my DSLR is effortless by comparison.  For some things, I love the 135 with Visoflex, but the image I capture is often not what I saw in my viewfinder.

14 minutes ago, Artin said:

it is hard ,, slow ,, and lots of practice and discipline 

I'm no expert, but I certainly agree - and the more I do it, the better I get.  Like so many other things, it's a "learning curve",  and also learning what the subjects will let you get away with, as in how close you can get, and how loud your camera is.  

You wrote:

16 minutes ago, Artin said:

Taking great wildlife pictures with a Canon or Nikon Slrs with a Super telephoto is not a huge challenge 

I would add one word "technically" right after the word "Taking".  Even with a longer lens, and a DSLR, someone needs a lot of patience, skill, camera support, and a sense of timing.

One of my Ibis photos below - there is a huge disconnect between what I see in the Visoflex and what the M10 captures.  I'm very pleased with the tele-Elma f/4 though - I got some excellent advice in this forum!!!

 

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[KFo]

For me, the apo180+app 2x are for a specific landscape/cityscape project I have in mind.  It’s my M10P so I’ll use the LCD for framing focusing.  The distances are from 500m to around 5km.  I suppose I’ll get to know what infinity focus means on such a package

 

[MikeMyers]

I especially like the 4th shot from the top - so clear, so colorful, bird is razor sharp and background is blurry, enhancing the view of the bird.  Very nice!  Was that with the 400?

[MikeMyers]

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Leica Sl 90 280&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&ap=Y&gclid=CjwKCAjwndCKBhAkEiwAgSDKQWcQoeBpRSDK9j5oP5Wf1igE8wGkU2RoIyuyzYL40bSgfJ6g1C3BbxoCeLEQAvD_BwE   ???

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[KFo]

Just got the APO 180 R + 2X APO + R-M adapter tooled up.  This gives new meaning to focusing at “infinity.”

It’ll be a learning curve for sure.  Haven’t used the tripod so much in years…

 

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Edited October 8, 2021 by KFo