28mm, F2 or F2.8?

[astrostl]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

34 minutes ago, wda said:

Each to his or her own way of buying a lens. I would be more interested in making the right choice, even if it meant waiting a while to find the most appropriate lens for my needs.

I find, "that is not the best of reasons to justify your choice" to be in very direct conflict with, "Each to his or her own way of buying a lens" 😂

I'm a former Elmarit owner (dropped because of 28 frameline annoyance with glasses rather than the lens itself), and did an agonizing amount of research about the Summicron versus the Elmarit prior to purchase. The Summicron's increased distortion rates to not impact me at all, so the decision came down to speed, size, and cost. Or put another way, if they were the same cost I would take the Cron despite preferring a smaller lens because of the increased speed, but I definitely wouldn't pay thousands for the stop.

If this were an apple and an orange I'd be more inclined to agree, but I think this is close to two slightly different apples. Which would make a trade-in matter for me, because private sales are a comparative pain.

[a.noctilux]

I must say that each 28mm (in general each lens/body/'thing') can be good choice.

If the 'thing' after using a while doesn't meet the projected means, just try another 'thing', then sell (or not) that 'thing'.

As simple as that.

 

Side note, hesitation (asking for infos ...) can be good also 😇.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Crem]

I'm a big fan of the Elmarit 28 v2. Even at 2.8, it has nice 3D subject separation when taking close up photos. Sharpness has never been an issue for me with this lens.

[a.noctilux]

8 minutes ago, Crem said:

I'm a big fan of the Elmarit 28 v2. Even at 2.8, it has nice 3D subject separation when taking close up photos. Sharpness has never been an issue for me with this lens.

You are right.

But sharpness/3D are NOT the only properties of choosing a lens.

Hopefully there are much more criterias than those.

The only way to discover them all is using the 'thing' a while in real life.

Edited July 29, 2021 by a.noctilux

[CosmoM3]

10 hours ago, Cobram said:

I used to own Elmarit ASPH. Very sharp lens but eventually I sold it and bought Cron v1 for all reasons mentioned in previous posts. Keeper.

the V2 is even better in terms of sharpness and contrast - you should give it a try.

[logan2z]

21 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Summicron is sharper and much more well behaved all over the aperture range.

the elmarit is the economic version.

It's Deja Vu all over again.

@overexposedHere's 25+ pages of discussion on 28mm M lenses, happy reading 🙂

[ianman]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1 hour ago, logan2z said:

It's Deja Vu all over again.

That’s a pleonasm  .... as you say, like a lot of the redundant threads.

[logan2z]

20 minutes ago, ianman said:

That’s a pleonasm  .... as you say, like a lot of the redundant threads.

Blame Yogi Berra 😀

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deja_Vu_All_Over_Again

[a.noctilux]

Mirko, don't bother.

New threads of same questions are everyday life of fora.

What we could answer without new threads ?

[Narsuitus]

On 7/28/2021 at 5:37 AM, overexposed said:

Looking forward to your opinions

Since I use 35mm f/1.4 and 21mm f/1.4 M-mount lenses on my Leica rangefinders, I have never felt the need for a 28mm lens on my film and digital Leica cameras.

I have, however, used the following 28mm lenses on other 35mm cameras:

Zeiss 28mm f/2 Distagon T* ZF 2

Vivitar 28mm f/2.5 M42 screw-mount

Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AIS

Zeiss 28mm f/2.8 Biogon

Asahi 28mm f/3.5 Super-Multi-Coated Takumar M42 screw-mount

Nikkor 28mm f/3.5 pre-AI (use in reverse position on bellows for close-ups and macros)

Fujinon 28mm f/3.5 M42 screw-mount (broken)

Nikkor 28mm f/4 perspective control (use for panoramic and architectural photos)

However, if I ever decided to buy a 28mm for my Leica rangefinders, here are the things that would be important to me:

1. A fast 28mm lens (f/1.4 or f/2) would be nice but my two f/1.4 M-mount lenses give me all the speed I need. A f/2.8, f/3.5, or f/4 Leitz 28mm lens would be all I really needed.

2. A Leitz lens would be nice but I would also consider Zeiss, Voigtländer, or 7artisans 28mm lens.

3. Center and edge image sharpness at f/4, f/5.6, f/8, and f/11 are important to me. My two Zeiss lenses and my Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AIS have excellent image quality. My Vivitar 28mm has poor image quality.

4. Lack of barrel distortion is important to me. My 28mm Nikkor perspective control has too much barrel distortion for my taste.

5. Being able to use my red, orange, yellow, polarizing, and infrared filters on the 28mm would be very important to me.

[Capuccino-Muffin]

2 hours ago, logan2z said:

It's Deja Vu all over again.

@overexposedHere's 25+ pages of discussion on 28mm M lenses, happy reading 🙂

I sense a bit of aggravation among the population of elmarit asph 28mm owners when I say that the summicron is rightfuly a better lens.

The 28mm summicron economic version, aka 28m elmarit asph, is still a v ery good lens. But it really oozes japanese signature to me. It’s a departure from any other Leica lenses in terms of character.

[astrostl]

5 minutes ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

I sense a bit of aggravation among the population of elmarit asph 28mm owners when I say that the summicron is rightfuly a better lens.

The 28mm summicron economic version, aka 28m elmarit asph, is still a v ery good lens. But it really oozes japanese signature to me. It’s a departure from any other Leica lenses in terms of character.

I'm not a current owner of either, but as already noted you have provided nothing to substantiate how 'rightful' this claim is.

Comprehensive side-by-side reviews, on the other hand, are unable to find significant differences.

[pippy]

21 minutes ago, astrostl said:

I'm not a current owner of either, but as already noted you have provided nothing to substantiate how 'rightful' this claim is...

Happily all the OP needs to do is re-read posts #4 & #9.

Both written by highly respected members who own both lenses and actually know what they are talking about.

Philip.

Edited July 29, 2021 by pippy

[Capuccino-Muffin]

I have owned both lenses Three times.

I’m on my third.

Elmarit: Higher contrast. More vignette/faloff. Softer. Smaller max aperture.

Call it how you will, but in the end that’s how I define an economic version. A downgrade. 
 

Sure, since you own a elmarit it automatically has to be the best choice one could ever make. There’s a syndrome defining this.

[rcusick]

Cappuccino - you're entitled to your opinion... But when dozens of users and respected reviewers contradict your statements one has to question their validity.  

Imho - the elmarit is sharper and has more contrast (but not as much as the 35mm summicron or summilux). The build quality of the elmarit  is excellent.  The weight fulfillls the Leica vision of compact and light. 

The summicron has an entirely different look.  A bit softer and definitely not as contrasty (bit with excellent microcontrast).  I use it when I need more might or a slightly more "film" oriented look.  I like it but it's too heavy for me to daily carry (vs the elmarit). 

[Capuccino-Muffin]

Believe me, people want you to own what they own. 
Also, over time you will see that opinions change. The summicron 35 asph went from Godsent status during a whole decade to “bland”.

same for the 50 lux asph. I was there, I saw it all. 
 

noctilux bashing, before the craze... ill tell you that I’m not impressed by all the contradictory opinions i read everyday.

[astrostl]

45 minutes ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

Believe me, people want you to own what they own. 

I don't own either of them. I can read reviews from people who analyze things much more deeply than most of us ever would, though 🤷‍♂️

[Mute-on]

I own the Elmarit ASPH V2.  I use f4.0 to 5.6 predominately, and like it. @overexposed might too. 
 

[ianman]

11 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

The 28mm summicron economic version, aka 28m elmarit asph

🤨... 🤔... 😂... 😂 ... 😂  😂  😂  😂  😂  😂  😂  😂 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[MarkP]

8 hours ago, rcusick said:

Cappuccino - you're entitled to your opinion... But when dozens of users and respected reviewers contradict your statements one has to question their validity.  

Imho - the elmarit is sharper and has more contrast (but not as much as the 35mm summicron or summilux). The build quality of the elmarit  is excellent.  The weight fulfillls the Leica vision of compact and light. 

The summicron has an entirely different look.  A bit softer and definitely not as contrasty (bit with excellent microcontrast).  I use it when I need more might or a slightly more "film" oriented look.  I like it but it's too heavy for me to daily carry (vs the elmarit). 

I agree. I have a 2.8/28 Elmarit-M and 2.0/28 Summicron ASPH (initially v1 and now v2) so also speak with experience.  Apart from the obvious size and weight comparisons, construction quality of both lenses is obviously outstanding.  Both lenses demonstrate outstanding image quality. The Elmarit is sharp as a tack and quite contrasty compared with the Summicron. The rendering of the Summicron is harder to describe, more gentle and muted with excellent micro-contrast - one of my favourite lenses.