Scanning Film

[oldwino]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I've scanned my 35mm film with an Epson V700. It's fine. I use Vuescan.

I have scanned with the Pacific Image XAs. It, too, is fine.  Use Vuescan here, too.

I have camera scanned with a Nikon Z6 and their filmstrip attachment. It's really good for B&W, and color is so much of a pain (I don't have Lightroom, don't plan on getting it, so Negative Lab is not an option for me), that I just use my XAs for that. It's fine. 

For my 6x6 shots, the Epson is quite good. 

Nothing is as good as a competent wet print. But I don't currently have a darkroom set up, so not an option. Lab scan are (can be) very good. 

[Geoff Marshall]

You could also have a look at Nikon coolscan scanners, the image IV added is a 35mm transparency scanned using a Coolscan IV. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[MikeMyers]

On 7/24/2021 at 8:44 AM, AceVentura1986 said:

Hello, all. I’ve been shooting digitally for 20+ years and shooting Leicas for 10+, including the fantastic M9M. Recently, tho, I acquired a beautiful 1955 vintage M3 and have been shooting it a bit. In Miami, where I live...

What a coincidence.  I also live in Miami, and decided a few months back that I was going to start using my M3 again in addition to my M10.  I've got an Epson V500 Photo Scanner, which I'm using on an Apple Mac Mini, and since Epson's software doesn't run on the latest MacOS, I switched to VueScan - which I've been learning.  I just posted a new thread in this forum yesterday, asking for advice on the VueScan software.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/323709-can-i-store-multiple-recipes-for-vuescan-so-i-dont-need-to-go-through-and-select-all-the-settings-when-i-change-from-scanning-negatives-to-prints/

 

For processing the negatives, I've been using "DarkroomAndDigitalFilmDeveloping", a very professional lab, that used to be on Lincoln Road in Miami Beach.  They have a wonderful reputation, and one look around their shop and I knew I could trust them to do a good job.

https://darkroomanddigital.com

They do professional processing, scanning, printing, mounting, and just about everything - but the rates for developing my film were more than reasonable.  They can also scan the film, but I wanted to do this myself, since I already had the Epson and VueScan. 

Nothing about scanning was obvious - I eventually figured out the VueScan settings, and got good "TIFF" images onto my computer where I process them in DxO PhotoLab4.  I was satisfied with the results, but I have a lot more to learn.  I posted a link to a file I created for my VueScan settings in the post I made earlier today.  I need to do a lot more research to find out if those are the optimum settings.

With no response to my other thread, I wondered if Leica film users were using different forums, but then I found this thread.  Good to know there is some interest here, and maybe a place to get answers.  I finished shooting my last roll of film in the M3 this morning, and I'll drop it off for processing Monday afternoon.  By the time I get the negatives back, I hope to understand the scanner settings better.  For now, I'm just shooting B&W, keeping things simple.

Previously, I was shooting on Ilford Delta 100 film, but just ordered a few rolls of Tri-X.  I watched a YouTube video comparing a film Leica using Tri-X, compared to Leica's Monochrome camera, and I came away from it thinking I liked the film photos more than the digital.  

[erl]

I've read this thread with interest and tried to adopt a neutral POV. In (I think) another thread on this topic I noted Steve's (250swab) comment about scanner digital noise, which he has repeated here. Steve, or anyone else, I am curious about how that looks either on screen or in my final hardcopy print. I have been scanning 'ever since' scanners were invent (not always with success, I might add), but currently I have three scanners. Nikon Super Coolscan 5000ED, Nikon Super Coolscan 8000ED, & Epson Perfection V700. The latter I would not again attempt to scan film smaller than 4"x5". Medium format and 35mm are FAR superior  on the Nikons. Granted the 8000 is slow, but there are many workarounds you can find to fill the time while a Hi Res scan is in progress. The 5000 is totally fast enough (for me) and gives me fine control, without fiddling and setting up equipment. I would like to know where I should look for the 'digital noise'. Is it buried in the film grain? Seriously, I don't have a problem with it.

I should also add that I actually enjoy scanning. It is the first step in my editing and allows me to critically assess which images progress to enlargement. Currently ALL my hardcopy prints, when selected, go straight to A2 size.

Also, another firm vote for VueScan software over all others.

It seems I do have the gear to reasonably set up camera scanning. I have the Leica 60/2.8 macro lens, ample darkroom enlargers that could convert to a copy stand and a light table, but I am not yet moved to go through the set up process. Currently I am enduring Lockdown #6 with curfew, so my attitude may change for 'something to do'.

[MikeMyers]

8 hours ago, erl said:

I noted Steve's (250swab) comment about scanner digital noise, which he has repeated here. Steve, or anyone else, I am curious about how that looks

Thank you @erl- I've also got an open mind about this, and for eventual use with a copy stand I bought an "A7A Light Pad Slim Edge without adapter".  I have had my Epson V500 PHOTO that I also bought from B&H.

I can simplify my needs here:  My past and current goal is to scan 35mm black and white negatives.  I may want to do more in the future.  The purpose of my scanning is to get my digitized b&w images into DxO PhotoLab4 for processing, eventually to mail or post those images - no printing.  There may be better solutions, but during my last attempt at this, I thought I was off to a reasonably good start.

Ken Rockwell's (old) article on film scanners left the Epson flat bed scanners as an acceptable choice, but with unlimited dollars there were better choices.  https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/scanrex.htm

I would be very interested in your comparison of the two Nikon Coolscans that you have, and your Epson V700.  For the purposes I described above, based on YOUR experience, how satisfactory was (or wasn't) the Epson.  If there is a better solution, and if I can afford it, I would likely buy it, but I think right now I'm still in the first grade, and just need to do basic scans, let alone make perfect scans.  Like learning how to crawl, before learning how to walk......

I watched the hour long video from B&H on scanning, and I accept that if I had a huge photo gallery, and wanted to digitize, a copy stand, camera, and light box would be best, but that's not my goal.  I would do a single 24 exposure roll of 35mm B&W film at a time, if possible make a contact print, and perhaps make a detailed scan of 1/3 of the good images.

[Doug A]

If I had to spend hours scanning negatives with an Epson or Plustek (all I could afford) or go through an extensive set-up and tear-down routine with a camera scanning setup I would probably pack in the whole hybrid business and switch to shooting digital. But I was very fortunate to acquire a Leitz BEOON copy stand at an affordable price. 

My fully assembled BEOON resides in a dairy crate (roughly a one foot cube) along with the second lens, extension tubes and negative holder to very infrequently change it for scanning 6x6 negatives. My little 8x10 Logan light box permanently resides on the work table. Set-up takes about fifteen seconds. I switch on the light box, pull the dairy crate out from under the work table, remove the Paterson anti-static cloth covering the BEOON, put the BEOON on the light box, push the dairy crate back under the work table, turn on the digital camera, remove the lens cap, and I am ready to go. Tear-down goes just as quickly. 

And scanning is hyper-fast. I cut my film in six frame strips. It takes about fifteen seconds to scan a strip. I usually shoot short 12-exposure rolls. Scanning a roll from. set-up to tear-down takes less than ten minutes, including the time to file the negatives and write the roll I.D. on the Print File page. 

[AceVentura1986]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

@MikeMyers and @erl , thanks for your input. After my last post, I felt I had gotten some passionate but mixed advice, some urging I use a camera whole others urging a scanner. I posted the same questions on three different forums in DPReview and got surprisingly similar results. My guess now is that there is no best answer, just two good solutions with significant pros and cons to each. 

Ultimately, I decided to go the camera method and bought a used 100mm Canon f/2.8 on eBay. I planned to post again in this thread after I had done my first session but given the recent answers felt I should chime in now. 
 

@Doug A, I’ve seen the BEOON copy stands on eBay but a, otherwise unfamiliar with them. Do you know if I can mount a Canon 100mm lens on one?  

Edited August 21, 2021 by AceVentura1986

[Doug A]

14 minutes ago, AceVentura1986 said:

@Doug A, I’ve seen the BEOON copy stands on eBay but a, otherwise unfamiliar with them. Do you know if I can mount a Canon 100mm lens on one?  

No. The BEOON was intended to work with a Leica LTM or M camera and a 50mm Leica LTM or M lens. The column is too short to work with longer lenses, and both the lens and camera have to have a LTM/M39 or M mount.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Doug A

[AceVentura1986]

4 hours ago, Doug A said:

No. The BEOON was intended to work with a Leica LTM or M camera and a 50mm Leica LTM or M lens. The column is too short to work with longer lenses, and both the lens and camera have to have a LTM/M39 or M mount.

Got it. Thanks. Might try to jury-rig a setup like it on my own.   

[MikeMyers]

If my idea of using the Epson PHOTO V500 doesn't work out, I guess I will be looking for a copy stand.  

I live in a small condo, and there's not much room for storage.  Would there be any disadvantages for buying this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1619645-REG/cinestill_film_aaa510_foldable_copy_stand.html

If it's not "sturdy" or "stable" enough, there are many similar stands that don't "collapse".

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[250swb]

That sort of copy stand is ideal, just set the camera to a delayed release and don't have a flamenco dance class going on in the same room at the same time and you are good to go.

[MikeMyers]

OK, that is "Plan B" if the Epson doesn't satisfy me.  As for a copy camera to mount on the stand, it's likely to be one of my Nikon DSLR bodies, a macro lens, and a right-angle finder so I can look "into" the camera, rather than hanging from the ceiling.   🙂

I think that @AceVentura1986 would be happiest if the flat bed scanner is good enough - I know I will.  VueScan makes everything easy.  My goal is simply to get the negatives into my image processor, PhotoLab4, where I can work with them as I usually do.  When I scan them, I create TIFF images, which I think will help maintain the quality.  I'll drop my film off on Monday, and by the end of the week I hope to have some image to post here.

I'll attach one image I captured with the M3 early this year, scanned with the Epson and VueScan, then processed in DxO PhotoLab3.  I was happy with it, but you guys know so much more about this than I do, maybe you'll find major flaws I'm not aware of.  (I couldn't post it full-size, so I reduced it to 2,000 pixels wide.  Ilford 100 has very fine grain, which I liked.  All the processing is what I would normally do for an image from my M10.  (I can post several images I scanned from M3 negatives, but this is typical.)

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited August 21, 2021 by MikeMyers

[harmen]

If batch scanning is desired, the plustek 135 is another option.  It’s my only way of scanning B&W and it’s fairly fast.  By the time I’ve looked quickly at the 6 images from a previous batch, the next batch is ready and requires me to cut and get another strip ready.  My local lab develops and scans my colour film.  Their Fuji Frontier gives a more pleasant impression of grain especially in the darkest areas.  For the B&W scans I find I have to post process the darkest areas and move them properly to black or else it will look a little muddy.

This discussion here tempts me to try alternatives.  For underwater use I have a Z7 with 105mm macro.  I’ve not heard of an easy way of using that to scan; buying a 60mm just for scanning would be an option if it were clearly superior.

[MikeMyers]

19 minutes ago, harmen said:

If batch scanning is desired, the plustek 135 is another option.

There is one minor problem with that - I just checked, and apparently it's no longer available.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1191681-REG/plustek_783064366878_opticfilm_135_35mm_slide.html

I didn't check if someone else had one for sale.

[erl]

I have been thinking about the options/methods mentioned in this thread and wondered 'why do I do it the way I do?'.

Here is a distillation of my thoughts:

1. I purchased my scanners some years ago when they were current and allegedly the 'best' option. I have honed my skills in using tham and improvement does come. I have not seen comparable scans by another method that are superior (that doesn't mean they don't exist!).

2. I get to appraise my images as they appear in the preview, which also allows me to fine tune the final scan, if necessary. This is important.

3. I realized that I have spend untold time on my feet in a darkroom peering over enlargers and suddenly I find I can prepare my image output sitting down! At my stage of life (80yrs) this is a great bonus. I can sit at my desk, poke a film strip into the scanner (see photo of my desktop below) and either watch it scan or carry on with other work on the computer eg. emails etc. at the same time. There is NO set up performance required (other than switching the scanner on).

FYI: An 11MB tiff scan @ 2000dpi from 35mm takes under 1min, including pre scan and final scan.

A 47.1MB scan @ 4000dpi takes 1min 10sec. for the same output.

Allowing that the final result, regardless of purpose, is equal or superior to anything I have experienced, I am pleased that the 'comfort factor' is a swinging argument, for me.

I do accept that other people will definitely have differing arguments that suit their experience and circumstance and I would not attempt to convince them to change, if they are happy.

In the pic below, note my two Nikon scanners sitting alongside my computer screen, with the Epson in the background, on another table.

P.S. I don't pretend to have a tidy desk! 😁

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[harmen]

3 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

There is one minor problem with that - I just checked, and apparently it's no longer available.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1191681-REG/plustek_783064366878_opticfilm_135_35mm_slide.html

I didn't check if someone else had one for sale.

It was updated with infrared and is now called 135i

[Doug A]

21 hours ago, AceVentura1986 said:

Got it. Thanks. Might try to jury-rig a setup like it on my own.   

An enlarger base and column with the column cut just long enough for 1:1 reproductions and the base cut just big enough for a small light pad might not be a bad approach. It would be a lot easier to set up for a camera and lens different from those required for the BEOON. I'd probably start by looking for something like a Durst M300. 

[madNbad]

If the major manufactures of high end scanners had continued to produce and improve them, there would be very little discussion about how to scan film. For new dedicated film scanners we are left with Pacific Images, Plustek or the massive Epson 850 bed scanner. There are work arounds to keep the older scanners going but if they begin to malfunction, there are no replacement parts and often even something a simple as connecting to the computer becomes a mass of wires and adapters. The Plustek does a serviceable job but it takes the better part of an afternoon to scan a roll. The Epson is great, if you have the room. In an ideal world, it would be a wet print scanned on a flatbed. Camera scanning is catching on mostly because it's fast. Once the setup is in place, a roll of film can be captured in five minutes or less and post processed at your leisure. There are a lot more variables with the camera scanning process, from the type of camera and lens combination, light source, even leveling. The advantage is, it's future proof. Once you have the copy stand and a good light source, if you need or want to change the camera or lens, you're not shopping for a replacement scanner. I would love to have an Epson but I live in a small house and need something I can store, setup quickly and put away when I'm done. I share my scanning table with my wife's crafts so the more portable the better. After several years of trying different combinations of cameras, lenses, stands, light sources and negative holders I finally move to the Negative Supply system. It's not an inexpensive way to go but it's solid and fast. Once everything is in place I can scan a roll of 36 in about four minutes. If I've done my job with exposure, both when taking the picture and then the capture, I can convert the same roll of B&W negatives in about a half hour. Everyone has their preferences and arguments for them but we still have the choices. The Plustek 7600i was a fine scanner but painfully slow, I like the new process and it encourages me to shoot more film.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Sony A7II, FE90G 2.8 Macro, Negative Supply Pro Riser MK 2. Carrier MK 1, Pro Mount MK 2 w/ 35 plate and brush, 5x7 Light Source Pro 95 CRI

Edited August 22, 2021 by madNbad

[MikeMyers]

I wonder if anyone can post an image that was scanned with an Epson flat bed scanner, and also scanned with maybe the Plustek.  

My goal was to create a black&white image that looked like it was taken on one of my old film cameras, and the reduced-size image I posted up above, when clicked on to view the image as large as possible, looks better than what I used to photograph when I was young, and there was no 'digital'.  Back then I couldn't afford to be shooting in color, and my one attempt at making a color print was barely passable.

I don't think my flat bed scanner would be adequate for creating images like what Ansel Adams created, but he used 4x5 or 8x10 negatives.

I think my M10 with 24 megapixels will create a sharper and more detailed image than my M3, but that's not the kind of images I'm usually taking.... not to mention I'm shooting images to be viewed on a computer screen, not a huge wall print, so I don't think it matters for my "audience".  Oh well, that's just me.  If I were creating images to be printed in a large format, where people might walk up to them from a foot away and view the detail, that would be a very different story.

Just the same, if someone who looks at my image up above can tell me it would be significantly better had I used a Plustek, I'd start searching for one.

Should I buy one of these?  It's "only" $500.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

  https://www.adorama.com/icdp8200iai.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw64eJBhAGEiwABr9o2IFowzehWOSdTrkjQt-A80KvZ4Ft-KWa2bobMTvyEIevNxCg9x40CBoCvEQQAvD_BwE&gclid=CjwKCAjw64eJBhAGEiwABr9o2IFowzehWOSdTrkjQt-A80KvZ4Ft-KWa2bobMTvyEIevNxCg9x40CBoCvEQQAvD_BwE&utm_source=adl-gbase-p

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[MikeMyers]

Added later......    I searched for basic videos on the Plustek, and found this one.  I think I'd rather learn from someone who sas more advanced, but it did show off what I think is a wonderful way to scan my negatives, rather than a flat bed scanner or setting up a camera stand.  I'll have to think on this for a few days, and wait to hear from you guys, but I can easily see myself buying one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBWasarYi5Q

Better video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBx-YN1yw_A

Edited August 22, 2021 by MikeMyers