Thinking of taking the plunge into MF. S3 or Fuji GFX 100s?

[ynp]

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On 7/30/2021 at 6:22 AM, overexposed said:

.get the gfx100s, its one third of the price, 1 stop better dynamic range, more MP! Start using the R glass and then maybe move on to native glass, or even adapt the S glass to the GFX.

What adapter will allow us to adapt the S lenses to the Fuji?

[helged]

1 hour ago, ynp said:

What adapter will allow us to adapt the S lenses to the Fuji?

 

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[tedwill]

This is a great topic.  I've enjoyed reading the debates about this.  

As I posted a few weeks back, I'm taking a trip with the Leica Miami Store to Iceland next February.  I want to bring the best image quality / weatherproof camera system for that trip.  I look at buying / renting the SL2 and getting additional lenses.  But then I thought, if this is really about getting the best landscape photos, why not try to get an MF camera for this trip?  I am typically an M shooter or a DSLR shooter for sports, etc.  But I started to think about a couple of options.  I really want to bring home large images to print and frame and give as gifts, mount them in my house, etc.  

Here are my options:

1. Rent the S3 and appropriate lenses

2. Buy the SL2 with the 24-70 or the 24-90 and rent the 90-280.  Rent the SL2-S as a backup and for the Northern Lights.

3. Buy the GFX100S and appropriate lenses. 

Since this trip is being led by Leica, would rather not bring the GFX100s.  The purpose of the class is betting shooting techniques with Leica cameras.  For the conditions in Iceland, I will need weatherproof cameras and lenses.  That is the SL2, SL2-S or S series MF cameras.  Sadly, my beloved M10R and lenses together are not weatherproof.

My questions - 

If my goal is to bring home the best quality shots (and not spend $40k on an S3 and two lenses, or rent an S3 since no one seems to do this) can the SL2's multishot capability deliver landscape photos at the medium format camera level of image quality?  If that's the case, then I will lean towards the SL2 for this trip.

Another option is to buy a used S007 and rent the appropriate lenses.  How does the S007 compare with the SL2 for image quality?

Many thanks for indulging my newbie questions.

-Ted

[Jeff S]

Are you already an experienced printer?  How large (and how much cropping)?  Any of the gear you mention can provide marvelous files for less than ‘monster’ sized prints, even without multi-shot, given appropriate workflow from shot to displayed print.  The last thing I’d want to gift someone, without their specific request and approval, is a wall sized print.
 

Jeff

[tedwill]

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Are you already an experienced printer?  How large (and how much cropping)?  Any of the gear you mention can provide marvelous files for less than ‘monster’ sized prints, even without multi-shot, given appropriate workflow from shot to displayed print.  The last thing I’d want to gift someone, without their specific request and approval, is a wall sized print.
 

Jeff

Thanks for your feedback. I used to print everything myself. But after a while, I did the math and it's far less expensive to find a really good print shop who can work with you and do color matching with specific profiles. I remember spending more on ink with various printers over the years than anything else.   I prefer as little cropping as possible.  Print sizes from 8x10 to larger poster sizes.  Most the wall sized prints will be for me and for others who are interested.  And no, I never buy or create artwork that I "gift" to somebody and expect them to love it just because I do. I typically show my prints to friends and family and many of them request reprints. 

I have never used a medium format camera before. I have shot for nearly 40 years with 35 mm film before switching to full frame digital.  The images that I saw coming from the S3 were thoroughly amazing. But I don't want to purchase something I may not use on a regular basis. This is one of those "once in a lifetime" trips, and I'd rather not come home and wish I had brought a better camera with me.

[Jeff S]

2 minutes ago, tedwill said:

Thanks for your feedback. I used to print everything myself. But after a while, I did the math and it's far less expensive to find a really good print shop who can work with you and do color matching with specific profiles. I remember spending more on ink with various printers over the years than anything else.   I prefer as little cropping as possible.  Print sizes from 8x10 to larger poster sizes.  Most the wall sized prints will be for me and for others who are interested.  And no, I never buy or create artwork that I "gift" to somebody and expect them to love it just because I do. I typically show my prints to friends and family and many of them request reprints. 

I have never used a medium format camera before. I have shot for nearly 40 years with 35 mm film before switching to full frame digital.  The images that I saw coming from the S3 were thoroughly amazing. But I don't want to purchase something I may not use on a regular basis. This is one of those "once in a lifetime" trips, and I'd rather not come home and wish I had brought a better camera with me.

David Farkas has been to Iceland many times, and had much success using the S007.  I'm sure the S3 is marginally better, but the S007 is no slouch.  I'm sure he and/or Josh would both be willing to discuss this question with you, and provide some valuable guidance despite their being salesmen.  Both also love the SL2. I suggest that whatever you choose, you use well before your trip so that you're comfortable with the gear once there.  You can of course buy the older S for a reasonable price now, with warranty, from Leica Miami.  Don't know if they would lend or rent one to you. The only way you can really judge is to try, regardless of what others might suggest.

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2015/09/my-photographic-adventure-through-iceland-with-the-leica-s-typ007/

Printing is a personal matter, just like shooting.  For me it's not about the math; it's about the control and enjoyment of completing shot to print display on my own.  A 17" printer suffices for my needs and tastes; a 24 inch or larger machine is a different beast.  

Jeff

[tedwill]

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5 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

David Farkas has been to Iceland many times, and had much success using the S007.  I'm sure the S3 is marginally better, but the S007 is no slouch.  I'm sure he and/or Josh would both be willing to discuss this question with you, and provide some valuable guidance despite their being salesmen.  Both also love the SL2. I suggest that whatever you choose, you use well before your trip so that you're comfortable with the gear once there.  You can of course buy the older S for a reasonable price now, with warranty, from Leica Miami.  Don't know if they would lend or rent one to you. The only way you can really judge is to try, regardless of what others might suggest.

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2015/09/my-photographic-adventure-through-iceland-with-the-leica-s-typ007/

Printing is a personal matter, just like shooting.  For me it's not about the math; it's about the control and enjoyment of completing shot to print display on my own.  A 17" printer suffices for my needs and tastes; a 24 inch or larger machine is a different beast.  

Jeff

Thanks.  I know you can get a used S007 for around $5000.

[Stuart Richardson]

There is another option. This is cheeky, but you can buy my S3 and pick it up in Reykjavik, and I will send you home with some free prints from my studio (my main job, aside from photographer and teacher is printing exhibitions for the museums and galleries here). I am also pretty sure I know quite a bit more about Iceland than David Farkas, as lovely as he is, haha, so if you have any questions, I am happy to help. No pressure though.

Regarding resolution, both the S3 and SL2 have more resolution and snap than the S007, but you would need to crop a lot or print quite large to notice. But it is there. One area where the S3 is clearly ahead of both cameras is in performance for long exposure night photography. The northern lights are ok with the SL2 as well, but the S3 has the advantage over all of them. The SL2-S might be better than the S3 for that...I have not tried it, but 64 vs 24 mp is a huge jump, so I suspect that even if the S3 is slightly noisier on a pixel level, it will more than make up for it on the basis of resolution.

[tom0511]

I love the S system but the SL2 is much more flexible. Telezoom, fast primes, IBIS, ...

So if you want the reach of a 90-280 or the speed of an f1.4 lens or ibis...the SL2 is the "easier" system. I am not sure how big you print and if you really need multi shot.

The S system will give you even better (slightly) color, DR, midtowns,... but you have to bring all those prime lenses, switch lenses, use tripod in lower light etc.

And I agree with the post above: Make sure you are comfortable and used to the gear you bring.

Nothing worse than searching for menus and functions instead of concentrating and focusing on the scene/subject.

As a user of both systems my choice would be the SL system, as much as I love the S.  

[Jeff S]

On 8/6/2021 at 6:02 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

There is another option. This is cheeky, but you can buy my S3 and pick it up in Reykjavik, and I will send you home with some free prints from my studio (my main job, aside from photographer and teacher is printing exhibitions for the museums and galleries here). I am also pretty sure I know quite a bit more about Iceland than David Farkas, as lovely as he is, haha, so if you have any questions, I am happy to help. No pressure though.

 

Well, since Farkas will be leading his trip, maybe you can share your wisdom (and prints) with both. 😁

Jeff

[Stuart Richardson]

They go straight into the nature...no time for us locals, haha.

[Stephen.s1]

Late to the party.. 

Extremely pleased with my GFX 100s and native glass.  Never shot the Leica. 

Ask your question in another, not so biased, forum.

[alan.y]

On 8/6/2021 at 6:02 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

There is another option. This is cheeky, but you can buy my S3 and pick it up in Reykjavik, and I will send you home with some free prints from my studio (my main job, aside from photographer and teacher is printing exhibitions for the museums and galleries here). I am also pretty sure I know quite a bit more about Iceland than David Farkas, as lovely as he is, haha, so if you have any questions, I am happy to help. No pressure though.

Regarding resolution, both the S3 and SL2 have more resolution and snap than the S007, but you would need to crop a lot or print quite large to notice. But it is there. One area where the S3 is clearly ahead of both cameras is in performance for long exposure night photography. The northern lights are ok with the SL2 as well, but the S3 has the advantage over all of them. The SL2-S might be better than the S3 for that...I have not tried it, but 64 vs 24 mp is a huge jump, so I suspect that even if the S3 is slightly noisier on a pixel level, it will more than make up for it on the basis of resolution.

Hi Stuart, have you used the S3 for videography at all? Are the rolling shutter and pixel binning artifacts noticeable like on the S007 (or even worse)? Thank you.

[alan.y]

.

Edited August 14, 2021 by alan.y

[Stuart Richardson]

Hi Alan,

I have not done as much video this past year as I had in previous years, but I think I would generally stick with the Panasonic S1, which I bought before the S3. It just looks the best to me out of the three cameras (SL2, S3 and S1), but my testing of the S3 was limited to short clips shot alongside the S1, and as far as I recall, I did not see the need to test further. Unfortunately, it seems like video is an area where the pro video companies like Panasonic and Sony are just able to leverage their experience over all the other players. The SL2 is quite good, but the S1 has a sensor better suited to video than either camera, as well as a company with more experience than Leica. If the S3 were my only camera that could do video, I would surely use it, but it is not, so...

[RVB]

Does the Fuji have leaf shutter lenses? If you like having access to Leaf shutter the S system offers this.

[ZHNL]

one important spec S missing is electronic first curtain shutter or even better pure electronic shutter. This is a quite essential feature for landscape or product shot require best detail of high pixel density sensor. I hope future Leica S can implement them. Mirror lock up only solve mirror vibration but not shutter's. 

I had problem with even SL2 whenever I use fully mechanical shutter at certain shutter speed.   

[xiaubauu2009]

 

On 8/18/2021 at 1:28 AM, RVB said:

Does the Fuji have leaf shutter lenses? If you like having access to Leaf shutter the S system offers this.

I think they can adapt to Hassy H lens... albeit with no AF functionality to get leaf shutter. The AF was neutered probably as an agreement with Hassy.

[zeleny]

On 8/5/2021 at 10:49 AM, tedwill said:

If my goal is to bring home the best quality shots (and not spend $40k on an S3 and two lenses, or rent an S3 since no one seems to do this) can the SL2's multishot capability deliver landscape photos at the medium format camera level of image quality?  If that's the case, then I will lean towards the SL2 for this trip.

Leica’s S series is far superior to their SL. You can get an S3 and two S lenses brand new for under $25K.

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[chrismuc]

6 hours ago, zeleny said:

Leica’s S series is far superior to their SL.

Can you send a link for scientific proof of your statement?