Comparison between 7 different 50mm lenses with original Leica M mount, Leica R mount adapted or LTM adapted to M

[hdmesa]

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3 hours ago, jaapv said:

Actually I do understand. Sony cameras are not optimized for the use of lenses designed for rangefinder cameras - Leica sensors are by special microlenses and extra thin filter stacks. So a comparison on a Sony is certainly not optimal. 

Thin versus thick sensor stacks only matter for corner sharpness (stopped down at infinity for example) – it won't affect central sharpness nor bokeh.

[jaapv]

Yes? Isn't corner sharpness a parameter in lens evaluation? And doesn't an AA filter lose 30% of resolution overall making lens differences harder to judge?

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[Ecar]

2 hours ago, Rodrigo castillo said:

Thank you so much … is a different interpretation than the original author of the comments, so, maybe in your case i a new a different comment more than an interpretation of the original one, but that is something that just Ecar could say… hahah … yes, there are performance differences between lenses optimized for different sensors.  I will make a comparison of only the lenses with M or LTM mount that allows to compare them all in my leica M. Perhaps this way you can comment on the results rather than the reasons for not commenting on the results.  hahahaha ... thank you very much everyone for your comments ...

Jaap and I are basically saying the same thing: if I'm a Leica user, the information from your comparison tells me how some lenses might be different from one another, but not how they would actually perform (in both absolute and relative terms) on my camera, because some may work better than others on a sensor optimised for RF lenses. Besides, although I wasn't even getting there as I have zero experience with Sony bodies, it's now well documented that, as Arnaud writes above, the Sony sensors do not play well with all M lenses (in particular the wider angles).

If I'm a Sony user, however, your comparison is more useful because it helps me understand how several third-party lenses would perform on my camera.

I hope this clarifies my post further.

Regarding Chinese lenses, I have a few of these and generally agree that the image quality is very impressive at their price point. And I like to be able to adjust them myself. As for the build quality of the lenses, I'm suspending judgment. The verdict will be announced in a few years.

Btw, I also love to experiment with lenses, especially with old/exotic ones.😉

[Rodrigo castillo]

2 minutes ago, Ecar said:

Jaap and I are basically saying the same thing: if I'm a Leica user, the information from your comparison tells me how some lenses might be different from one another, but not how they would actually perform (in both absolute and relative terms) on my camera, because some may work better than others on a sensor optimised for RF lenses. Besides, although I wasn't even getting there as I have zero experience with Sony bodies, it's now well documented that, as Arnaud writes above, the Sony sensors do not play well with all M lenses (in particular the wider angles).

If I'm a Sony user, however, your comparison is more useful because it helps me understand how several third-party lenses would perform on my camera.

I hope this clarifies my post further.

Regarding Chinese lenses, I have a few of these and generally agree that the image quality is very impressive at their price point. And I like to be able to adjust them myself. As for the build quality of the lenses, I'm suspending judgment. The verdict will be announced in a few years.

Btw, I also love to experiment with lenses, especially with old/exotic ones.😉

I agree that different bodies, sensors and lenses behave to some extent different depending on how they are combined, especially I assume differences in colors and contrast that I have actually seen and see with M lenses between my sony, my M9, my Ricoh, my M8 and my canon.  Perhaps the camera that most resembles my M8 and M9 is the Ricoh, probably because of the CCD sensor.  On the other hand, I have not seen differences in sharpness, that is, the same lens tends to behave very similarly between different cameras.  That would be a fun experiment to do, testing for example how the same 50mm Summicron M behaves in 3 or 4 different cameras.

[Rodrigo castillo]

14 minutes ago, Ecar said:

Jaap and I are basically saying the same thing: if I'm a Leica user, the information from your comparison tells me how some lenses might be different from one another, but not how they would actually perform (in both absolute and relative terms) on my camera, because some may work better than others on a sensor optimised for RF lenses. Besides, although I wasn't even getting there as I have zero experience with Sony bodies, it's now well documented that, as Arnaud writes above, the Sony sensors do not play well with all M lenses (in particular the wider angles).

If I'm a Sony user, however, your comparison is more useful because it helps me understand how several third-party lenses would perform on my camera.

I hope this clarifies my post further.

Regarding Chinese lenses, I have a few of these and generally agree that the image quality is very impressive at their price point. And I like to be able to adjust them myself. As for the build quality of the lenses, I'm suspending judgment. The verdict will be announced in a few years.

Btw, I also love to experiment with lenses, especially with old/exotic ones.😉

And about the calibration of Chinese lenses is what I hate the most about them.  I have 3 or 4 and, for example, the TT Artisan 0.95 I never need any adjustment (surely it was just luck) instead with the 7 Artisan f 1.1 I had to spend more than 2 hours, a millimeter to the right, half a millimeter to the left… however given how cheap they are it has been worth it.  I agree with you that while they seem very solid, only time will tell if I really noticed they were.

[Rodrigo castillo]

3 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Hello Rodrigo,

...with M9 only 18Mpixels ?

I am not sure if I understood your question 

[a.noctilux]

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The subtle rendering of lens+sensor can only understood (to be used in real photographic pictures... only for me of course),

when we take the real life pics for a while, so testing lenses with only one subject at fixed distance is meaningless for real life pictures.

 

I have done that testings, waste of time, better do the real life pics as I said so often.

As side note, in my experience, lenses with same type but not same period, or same unit can be very different in final result.

At one time, out of curiosity, I 'tested' eight units of same Leica Summicron 35mm famous 'IV' Canada/Germany/various types of levers/date/etc., in different situations,

it took me months to understand that each Cron IV is not the same as the other one (s): focus feeling, accuracy of RF, final results are different.

 

1 minute ago, Rodrigo castillo said:

I am not sure if I understood your question 

I had done lens testings with M9, 18Mpix then, years ago

[Rodrigo castillo]

1 minute ago, a.noctilux said:

The subtle rendering of lens+sensor can only understood (to be used in real photographic pictures... only for me of course),

when we take the real life pics for a while, so testing lenses with only one subject at fixed distance is meaningless for real life pictures.

 

I have done that testings, waste of time, better do the real life pics as I said so often.

As side note, in my experience, lenses with same type but not same period, or same unit can be very different in final result.

At one time, out of curiosity, I 'tested' eight units of same Leica Summicron 35mm famous 'IV' Canada/Germany/various types of levers/date/etc., in different situations,

it took me months to understand that each Cron IV is not the same as the other one (s): focus feeling, accuracy of RF, final results are different.

 

I had done lens testings with M9, 18Mpix then, years ago

Yes, that right … If you see I put in the comparison two Summicron R and the result is not the same even in my very limited experiment. And I agree that the only real way to compare lenses and or cameras is in actual images, but, any way is possible to have some ideas with experimental comparisons too, not all not the best information but any way useful information ….

[a.noctilux]

Of course,

I noticed this site a while back

useful if we plan to buy

one of those lenses (link to his site)