Dennis Posted July 21, 2021 Author Share #41 Posted July 21, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 22 minutes ago, giannis said: Ah, kinda like me. Tbh I also use a hood most of the time for protection from bumps etc. since I don't use a "protective" filter. My hoods are mostly sacrificial, to take all the hits, bumps, scratches, accidental bangs against rails etc. . Exactly, that's me. Lens hood for protection all day long every time I use my camera. This way, I can handle it as I want, bumps, better storage and practice etc. A must for me. Thank you, again, for your insights about the 21/3.5. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 Hi Dennis, Take a look here New 21mm || SEM or not SEM, that is the question!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Dennis Posted July 23, 2021 Author Share #42 Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) I know I told you I don't like Zeiss lenses, I still don't. I just discovered the 21/4.5 Biogon? I never looked at it only because was a Zeiss 🤣 But hey, it's only 190gr, I didn't know that. And it has MFD of 50cm. And If I shoot at f/8 only, who cares about the slow aperture of 4.5? Do you know if it performs similar to the 2.8/35 Biogon? Is maybe between SEM and CV 21/3.5? Maybe it's the step brother of the SEM I heard about the color shift. Is bad with this lens? Any feedback? Edited July 23, 2021 by Dennis Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 23, 2021 Share #43 Posted July 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Dennis said: who cares about the slow aperture of 4.5? Count me in . I have no experience with this lens but it is said to produce red edges on digital M cameras Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted July 23, 2021 Author Share #44 Posted July 23, 2021 5 hours ago, lct said: I have no experience with this lens but it is said to produce red edges on digital M cameras Yep, I read about it and received yesterday a DM by a user. I guess it would be much better to use it on BW, film or digital. This lens have almost no distortion, and great IQ. It would be a great match for an M10M 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giannis Posted July 23, 2021 Share #45 Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, Dennis said: I heard about the color shift. Is bad with this lens? Any feedback? My digital experience is limited, but this lens had noticeable colour shift, same or worse of any lens I've seen, other than the 15/16mm Hologons. That was in the M9 days, not sure if modern sensors can cope better with its very oblique rays. Of course this is not surprising, as it's very "symmetric" (though in principle hybrid) and extends very far back. Similar situation with the 21mm Super Angulon really. That's why they're able to achieve their zero distortion and high performance in a small size. Edited July 23, 2021 by giannis 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted July 23, 2021 Author Share #46 Posted July 23, 2021 23 minutes ago, giannis said: My digital experience is limited, but this lens had noticeable colour shift, same or worse of any lens I've seen, other than the 15/16mm Hologons. That was in the M9 days, not sure if modern sensors can cope better with its very oblique rays. Of course this is not surprising, as it's very "symmetric" (though in principle hybrid) and extends very far back. Similar situation with the 21mm Super Angulon really. That's why they're able to achieve their zero distortion and high performance in a small size. Understood. So, with a M10M I would use this lens at his best (w/o its lack). I see it. But now, no good for my M10, where I want to be able to shoot color and BW, w/ any lens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted July 24, 2021 Share #47 Posted July 24, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 hours ago, Dennis said: Understood. So, with a M10M I would use this lens at his best (w/o its lack). I see it. But now, no good for my M10, where I want to be able to shoot color and BW, w/ any lens. Dennis, I had this lens back in my M9 days, and it had Italian flag so bad I sold it. It is a great lens though. Don’t know how it does on the M10, but I bet it’s OK. Can someone chime in on this. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted July 24, 2021 Share #48 Posted July 24, 2021 I started with a 21 Color Skopar on m9-P. More to experiment and better understand this focal length. Loved it, in spite of some mild color cast. After a bout of gas, I bought the 21 SEM. It was wonderful, but I did not use it much till I got a 21 viewfinder. Now with my M10-P and Visoflex, it’s one of my most used lens. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cl35mm Posted July 25, 2021 Share #49 Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) All the hoods are too big for me. You can use the rings as a hood. Or a photo filter without glass.The front lens is too close to the edge. Can be scratched when using the cover. I use filter without glass. 2 in 1. You can use any combination of rings Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited July 25, 2021 by Cl35mm Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/322807-new-21mm-sem-or-not-sem-that-is-the-question/?do=findComment&comment=4244770'>More sharing options...
MarkP Posted July 25, 2021 Share #50 Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) On 7/23/2021 at 3:50 PM, Dennis said: I know I told you I don't like Zeiss lenses, I still don't. I just discovered the 21/4.5 Biogon? I never looked at it only because was a Zeiss 🤣 But hey, it's only 190gr, I didn't know that. And it has MFD of 50cm. And If I shoot at f/8 only, who cares about the slow aperture of 4.5? Do you know if it performs similar to the 2.8/35 Biogon? Is maybe between SEM and CV 21/3.5? Maybe it's the step brother of the SEM I heard about the color shift. Is bad with this lens? Any feedback? I had this lens previously. Compact, light, great bayonet-mount hood. I do not like 1/3 stop indents on aperture rings. Fabulous on film and Monochrom v1. Really bad Italian flag made it unusable on M9. I could convert to B&W but the edges still required a lot of repair work. Finally replaced it with th eSpectacular 3.4/21 SEM.Will post examples shortly. It is completely unsuitable for colour digital cameras. Edited July 25, 2021 by MarkP 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted July 25, 2021 Share #51 Posted July 25, 2021 M9, 4.5 21mm Biogon B&W Conversion and Colour from same shoot (couldn't locate the original matching colour file for the B&W but you'll get the idea). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! . 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! . ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/322807-new-21mm-sem-or-not-sem-that-is-the-question/?do=findComment&comment=4244781'>More sharing options...
MarkP Posted July 25, 2021 Share #52 Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! This was a colour conversion from the 4.5/21 ZM and M9. Needed lots of repair work along the left edge to make this useable - you can probably see it now I've brought your attention to it. Edited July 25, 2021 by MarkP Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! This was a colour conversion from the 4.5/21 ZM and M9. Needed lots of repair work along the left edge to make this useable - you can probably see it now I've brought your attention to it. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/322807-new-21mm-sem-or-not-sem-that-is-the-question/?do=findComment&comment=4244783'>More sharing options...
lct Posted July 25, 2021 Share #53 Posted July 25, 2021 Tempting... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted July 25, 2021 Share #54 Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, lct said: Tempting... If you’re referring to the 4.5/21 C-Biogon, definitely for film or Monochrom. having said that the photo above (Wilsons Promontory, Victoria, Australia) is one of my favourite photos. It’s worth doing a search in the forum for this lens on the Monochrom v1. I seem to recall some great architectural photos on exactly this maybe 7 or 8 years ago. I’m on my phone so a hassle to search. However, although the Biogon is fabulous with virtually no distortion, it does not compare to the 21 SEM. When I bought the SEM I kept the Zeiss for a while as I’d taken so many great photos with it. In the end it went. Edited July 25, 2021 by MarkP 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 25, 2021 Share #55 Posted July 25, 2021 The Super-Angulon 21/3.4 works fine on my Kolari mod A7r2 so i wonder how the Biogon 21/4.5 could behave on that body. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share #56 Posted July 25, 2021 2 hours ago, MarkP said: However, although the Biogon is fabulous with virtually no distortion, it does not compare to the 21 SEM. When I bought the SEM I kept the Zeiss for a while as I’d taken so many great photos with it. In the end it went. The SEM seems to beat all other 21 lenses, always 🙂 Thank you for sharing more info and your beautiful photos about 21/4.5. Yes, it's so bad the italian flag on color and I'm sure I don't want that. I was reading yesterday about how old the "new" ZM lenses are... I guess they need an update for new digital sensors. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnew Posted July 25, 2021 Share #57 Posted July 25, 2021 Dennis, It is already some time I believe you want to buy the SEM but you need a rationale to be put behind your preference with it. I believe all is said and now you are on your own to make the decision. What you need now is patience such that you can buy the best copy with the lowest possible budget. Good luck ! I have it and I am very happy with it. Sold once and bought again. 😊 2 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share #58 Posted July 26, 2021 3 hours ago, newnew said: I believe all is said and now you are on your own to make the decision. I know, I know. But it's true. I have all the info, everything I need to know. I can't wait to have a 21mm for my M10. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share #59 Posted July 26, 2021 3 hours ago, newnew said: Sold once and bought again. 😊 haha, a classic. Now please don't sell it anymore. Or sell it to me 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted July 26, 2021 Share #60 Posted July 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Dennis said: I know, I know. But it's true. I have all the info, everything I need to know. I can't wait to have a 21mm for my M10. Dennis, if you’re like me, you are always wanting a new lens or focal length to experience. I was brought up with the 21/4 Super Angulon that my dad had for his IIIf and then the M3. It was always a very special lens for him, and in the late 50’s, early 60’s, was really stretching the envelope. I used it on the M3, and then when we got a pair of Leicaflex SLs in the early 70’s, I had to have the 21/4 Super Angulon R for it. Used it for years, and then when I switched back to M, I bought the 21/2.8 Elmarit from Lambertin in Cologne. I loved that lens and used it for years. To raise money, I reluctantly sold it. When I bought my M9-P, I wanted a 21 again, and purchased the ZM 21/4.5, but eventually gave up on it even with Cornerfix, the Italian flag syndrome was too much of a problem. Sold it, and at some point got the CV 21/4, which was better than the ZM. Some years later, I bought the ASPH version, but then acquired the WATE. I sold both the 21 ASPH and my ZM 18/4 to finance it. The WATE has cured my super wide itch, and gives some added flexibility to boot. 16-18-21 covering all the super wide bases. I have never looked back or regretted selling the 21 ASPH. Although, I have been looking at the CV 21/1.4 - super wide with shallow depth of field! 😂 Be careful of what you wish for, or down the rabbit hole you go! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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