Leica M10p Problem, customer service isn't replying

[Carolyn Yang]

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Hi! I have just recently brought a second hand Leica m10p camera that is produce in June 2019.

As I was testing it, I found that there is a horizontal line run across most of my pictures. 

It happens when my camera is heated or I dial the iso up to 1600. Previous seller claim that he never encounter any issue like this... 

This is my first Leica m camera as I'm not very familiar with it, so I'm not sure if it is trigger by me or is it something else.

I have read through all the forum since I have this issue. And was surprise that this is a common issue on this extremely expensive camera.

I have follow the instruction from attached post and send several email to Leica to explain my problem, thinking it will be an easy fix.

However, a week has passed and never received any email back from Leica customer service nor the technical department.

Does anyone has similar problem with horizontal line or customer service? Any advice would help enormously!

Thank you so much!

 

 

[mmradman]

Welcome to the forum, not a nicest experience with the first camera of this type in your hands.  To eliminate any user error can we assume you don't underexpose.

My plain advice, return the camera if you can.  If seller is claiming he never saw the problem why sell the camera, upgrade or run away?  Don't expect much help from leica in the near future, Europe including Germany is going into annual leave session, you may have wait a long time to see this fixed. 

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[pedaes]

2 hours ago, Carolyn Yang said:

Leica m10p

Welcome to the Forum.

It might be worth loading the latest FW, as the camera probably hasn't had this. For M10-P it should be 3.21.3.50 (see last screen in Menu for FW loaded). Very simple to do, but worth charging battery first.

Can be downloaded from Leica or here https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2021/01/leica-perspective-control-for-m10-r-m10-p-and-m10m/#FirmwareDownloads

Edited July 14, 2021 by pedaes

[dkmoore]

Give them a call. 

[Carolyn Yang]

12 hours ago, mmradman said:

Welcome to the forum, not a nicest experience with the first camera of this type in your hands.  To eliminate any user error can we assume you don't underexpose.

My plain advice, return the camera if you can.  If seller is claiming he never saw the problem why sell the camera, upgrade or run away?  Don't expect much help from leica in the near future, Europe including Germany is going into annual leave session, you may have wait a long time to see this fixed. 

Thank you for your warm welcome! I don't think i have underexpose the picture. I use live view to make sure my picture is not underexpose.

I don't think returning is an option, as i buy from the person directly and has already pay him the full amount. It was stupid of me by not using a third party dealer.

When is the annual leave session begin in Europe? I tried emailing both Leica USA and general Leica customer service, no reply as for now.

Do you have any suggestion of whom i can contact? 

Thank you!

[Carolyn Yang]

13 hours ago, pedaes said:

Welcome to the Forum.

It might be worth loading the latest FW, as the camera probably hasn't had this. For M10-P it should be 3.21.3.50 (see last screen in Menu for FW loaded). Very simple to do, but worth charging battery first.

Can be downloaded from Leica or here https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2021/01/leica-perspective-control-for-m10-r-m10-p-and-m10m/#FirmwareDownloads

Thank you for your suggestion!

I have check my camera and the firmware is the latest 3.21.3.50. I have also reset it to default manufacturing setting, firmware stays 3.21.5.50, the line is still visible.

Very strange and frustrating..

[Carolyn Yang]

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7 hours ago, dkmoore said:

Give them a call. 

I called Leica store in Taipei for any suggestion. (Taipei store is my nearest Leica store, still 3.5 hours away)

They told me to bring it in for inspection, however the technician is only available from Mon. to Fri. due to Covid restriction. 

That will mean i need to take a day off from work..

And all Leica m camera need to send back to German if needed repair.

This will be me last measure because is highly inconvenient. 

I wish customer service can simply reply my email and i can avoid all this.

 

[pedaes]

3 hours ago, Carolyn Yang said:

And all Leica m camera need to send back to German if needed repair.

Does your camera have 2 or 3 year Warranty, as this will be expensive if out of Warranty.

If you discuss with Store and they think will probably need to be sent to Leica, you can send direct to Leica yourself - all the Forms are on their Website under 'Customer Care'.

Is there no way you can return camera as faulty and get your money back . Leica may be able to tell if problem is new, so you could take legal action against seller. His statement that problem didn't exist is meaningless.

It is a great shame you have this problem, I feel sorry for you. If the camera is in Warranty, or you have it repaired,  it will come back from Leica as new.

Come on guys of LUF, this is terrible, can no one help?

Edited July 15, 2021 by pedaes

[dkmoore]

4 hours ago, Carolyn Yang said:

I called Leica store in Taipei for any suggestion. (Taipei store is my nearest Leica store, still 3.5 hours away)

They told me to bring it in for inspection, however the technician is only available from Mon. to Fri. due to Covid restriction. 

That will mean i need to take a day off from work..

And all Leica m camera need to send back to German if needed repair.

This will be me last measure because is highly inconvenient. 

I wish customer service can simply reply my email and i can avoid all this.

 

Sorry, I meant call Leica Wetzler, not the local store. The local store likely won’t be able to fix it. 

[Photoworks]

I think sensor issues are addressed in Germany , I have email leica for something else and it is summer months and some people go on vacation.

some costumer service department email back after a week, others quicker, others you have an exchange of 2 email and then they don't replay anymore. there is room for improvement .

You should know that sending the camera back to leica Germany will mean months of waiting. you should anyway go true leica local service or store to avoid shipping cost and export taxes.

Personally unless it is a pixel mapping issue I is probably a repair .

I would do tests at all ISO setting and see when it will show up and not show up. Leica is not open to description of sensors, but some implement dual iso technology. Perhaps that is why you see it only on some ISO.

In any case it will expensive you should try to reason with the seller and get some money back.

[mmradman]

6 hours ago, Carolyn Yang said:

Thank you for your warm welcome! I don't think i have underexpose the picture. I use live view to make sure my picture is not underexpose.

I don't think returning is an option, as i buy from the person directly and has already pay him the full amount. It was stupid of me by not using a third party dealer.

When is the annual leave session begin in Europe? I tried emailing both Leica USA and general Leica customer service, no reply as for now.

Do you have any suggestion of whom i can contact? 

Thank you!

Do you know seller personally? As you are in Taiwan I am not familiar with local customs when it comes to this type of private transaction, by the sound of it you may have been sold a camera with sensor/electronics problem.

In Continental Europe August is traditionally holiday month and most business run with reduced workforce, chances of getting regular service are slim until September.

Talking to local Leica retailer is good idea, if you can demonstrate the problem they should be able to propose best option for the fix.  Try asking them would they be prepared to examine RAW or JPG files you can email them locally saving you a day off to go to the shop. If camera needs to go back to Germany try to arrange it via local Leica dealer, it is in their interest to provide you with good service regardless of first or second ownership.

[Carolyn Yang]

4 hours ago, pedaes said:

Does your camera have 2 or 3 year Warranty, as this will be expensive if out of Warranty.

If you discuss with Store and they think will probably need to be sent to Leica, you can send direct to Leica yourself - all the Forms are on their Website under 'Customer Care'.

Is there no way you can return camera as faulty and get your money back . Leica may be able to tell if problem is new, so you could take legal action against seller. His statement that problem didn't exist is meaningless.

It is a great shame you have this problem, I feel sorry for you. If the camera is in Warranty, or you have it repaired,  it will come back from Leica as new.

Come on guys of LUF, this is terrible, can no one help?

Camera still has the 2 year warranty, that's the main reason I bought this camera.

I have been talking to the seller, he's actually very involve and trying to solve this issue together.

I actually received a reply back from customer care, Peter Brieger, he told me that customer care are two days behind in answering emails.

I will wait a little longer and give everyone an update!

Thank you so much for taking time to reply!

 

[Carolyn Yang]

1 hour ago, mmradman said:

Do you know seller personally? As you are in Taiwan I am not familiar with local customs when it comes to this type of private transaction, by the sound of it you may have been sold a camera with sensor/electronics problem.

In Continental Europe August is traditionally holiday month and most business run with reduced workforce, chances of getting regular service are slim until September.

Talking to local Leica retailer is good idea, if you can demonstrate the problem they should be able to propose best option for the fix.  Try asking them would they be prepared to examine RAW or JPG files you can email them locally saving you a day off to go to the shop. If camera needs to go back to Germany try to arrange it via local Leica dealer, it is in their interest to provide you with good service regardless of first or second ownership.

I know him through buying the camera. 

I have compare the picture to those who also have horizontal line in pictures and the line is identical. Personally I think (and hope) it can be fix by remapping pixels.

I have received feedback from customer care, he told me to be patient and wait a little longer, they will get to me eventually.

I'll give everyone an update when they do!

Thank you so much for your help! This forum is more helpful than Leica themselves..

[mujk]

If I recall correctly, there are several threads on this issue, including the one linked in the original post. After you have contacted them Leica Germany support will ask you for one or several sample images in dng format and then, if they think it is a bad pixel,  send you a customised firmware file. Once installed, this will map out the bad pixel an fix the problem.

[Herr Barnack]

39 minutes ago, Carolyn Yang said:

Camera still has the 2 year warranty, that's the main reason I bought this camera.

I have been talking to the seller, he's actually very involve and trying to solve this issue together.

I actually received a reply back from customer care, Peter Brieger, he told me that customer care are two days behind in answering emails.

I will wait a little longer and give everyone an update!

Thank you so much for taking time to reply!

 

I'm relieved to hear that your camera's warranty is still in effect - the fix may be something as simple as a firmware upgrade or pixel remapping.  If a sensor replacement is needed, that would be very expensive if you had to pay for it yourself. 

Quote

...In Continental Europe August is traditionally holiday month and most business run with reduced workforce, chances of getting regular service are slim until September...

Unfortunately there will be a long wait for warranty service on your camera.  Unless installing a firmware upgrade at home fixes the problem, there is no way around sending the camera in to Wetzlar and waiting. 

This is one of the reasons I would not buy a used digital M camera.  A used film M or M lens is different altogether.  With a digital body, there can be problems such as this lurking in the camera, waiting to come out and cause you grief.  Live and learn...

Edited July 15, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[Jeff S]

2 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

This is one of the reasons I would not buy a used digital M camera.  A used film M or M lens is different altogether.  With a digital body, there can be problems such as this lurking in the camera, waiting to come out and cause you grief.

This is why I recommend buying used digital gear from a good dealer like Leica Miami, which has gear inspected and often serviced first, thereby often including a new or extended Leica warranty in addition to store warranty. Prices are a bit higher, but for good reason. I bought a used M9 Monochrom from them years ago that had just come back from Leica with new sensor (only way they sell M9 bodies) and full service.

Jeff

[Herr Barnack]

5 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

This is why I recommend buying used digital gear from a good dealer like Leica Miami, which has gear inspected and often serviced first, thereby often including a new or extended Leica warranty in addition to store warranty. Prices are a bit higher, but for good reason. I bought a used M9 Monochrom from them years ago that had just come back from Leica with new sensor (only way they sell M9 bodies) and full service.

Jeff

Very true - I would buy a used digital M from Leica Store Miami, Leica Store San Francisco, Camera West, etc.  If a used camera has a problem when they take it in on trade, they send it in and have it made right before selling it. 

[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

Very true - I would buy a used digital M from Leica Store Miami, Leica Store San Francisco, Camera West, etc.  If a used camera has a problem when they take it in on trade, they send it in and have it made right before selling it. 

Camera West and SF are great stores, but do not do this to the consistency of Miami.  The former stores will, for instance, sell Leica S lenses without AF motor replacement, while Miami only sells them with new motors (just like their new sensor approach with M9’s).  But the prices at Miami are often much higher. Miami will also regularly send used lenses to DAG before sale rather than to Leica, while this is not the SF/CW established routine unless there is an obvious issue.  I’ve used all 3 dealers, but Miami’s used inventory more consistently meets a high standard.

Jeff

[mujk]

Unfortunately, good Leica stores are not that evenly distributed around the globe. Living at the northern edge of Europe, I think my nearest dedicated Leica shop is actually in northern Germany. Locally we only have one or two very small Leica shop in shops.

But we have a good local distributor and that helps a lot. They will not replace your camera, but can check it out and also do some minor service like rangefinder adjustments and sensor cleaning. And they are able to handle shipping to Wetzlar and back. So if you don't have a good dealer nearby it may be worth checking the distributor.

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[Jeff S]

6 hours ago, mujk said:

Unfortunately, good Leica stores are not that evenly distributed around the globe. Living at the northern edge of Europe, I think my nearest dedicated Leica shop is actually in northern Germany. Locally we only have one or two very small Leica shop in shops.

But we have a good local distributor and that helps a lot. They will not replace your camera, but can check it out and also do some minor service like rangefinder adjustments and sensor cleaning. And they are able to handle shipping to Wetzlar and back. So if you don't have a good dealer nearby it may be worth checking the distributor.

I live 3000 miles away from some of the dealers I use in the US.  And a long way, too, from various third party repair services. But still easy to contact by phone or writing, and have items shipped as needed.  I bypass Leica distributors or reps and contact directly.  I don’t know if one can do something similar elsewhere, or how cost effective or practical it might be given various regulations, etc.

Jeff