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Impressions of the new 24-70mm SL?


lucy63
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I'm settled on getting the Leica SL2s but undecided on whether to get the camera with the kit 24-70L.

If you use any of the Summicron SL lenses, what are your feelings re the 24-70 IQ in comparison?

I usually use a 50 prime on M cameras and have little experience of zooms, do I need one, I don't know!.. I'm wondering if I'll either regret not saving  by buying the zoom as a kit or regret getting it and not putting the money towards the expensive 50 APO SL lens.

Seems a bit rude somehow, I also posted this question on DPreview in the hope of getting more feedback as I really had enough of my indecision and just want to take photos. 😊 

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb lucy63:

I'm settled on getting the Leica SL2s but undecided on whether to get the camera with the kit 24-70L.

If you use any of the Summicron SL lenses, what are your feelings re the 24-70 IQ in comparison?

I usually use a 50 prime on M cameras and have little experience of zooms, do I need one, I don't know!.. I'm wondering if I'll either regret not saving  by buying the zoom as a kit or regret getting it and not putting the money towards the expensive 50 APO SL lens.

Seems a bit rude somehow, I also posted this question on DPreview in the hope of getting more feedback as I really had enough of my indecision and just want to take photos. 😊 

Here is a thread from the forum with some photos.

 

I have only the "Original" from Sigma (high Simone).

It's pretty good for a zoom. I can't test the Leica but the Sigma seems so good for me (especially if you habe primes for the ultimate quality) that I don't miss the red point :)

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4 minutes ago, TeleElmar135mm said:

Here is a thread from the forum with some photos.

 

I have only the "Original" from Sigma (high Simone).

It's pretty good for a zoom. I can't test the Leica but the Sigma seems so good for me (especially if you habe primes for the ultimate quality) that I don't miss the red point :)

Thank you for this.. I'm interested in comparisons in rendering and IQ, between the zoom at 50mm and the Summicron 50 APO L lens. 

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I also use the Sigma 24-70/2.8 as my go-to lens, Sigma 85/1.4 or Summicron-M 90 for portraits, then other M lenses for specific needs.  The IQ of the 24-70/2.8 is incredible and clients love the results.  Now I see kits with SL-2s, 24-70 Vario, AND Leica M adapter!  Buy it !!!

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10 minutes ago, SonomaBear said:

I also use the Sigma 24-70/2.8 as my go-to lens, Sigma 85/1.4 or Summicron-M 90 for portraits, then other M lenses for specific needs.  The IQ of the 24-70/2.8 is incredible and clients love the results.  Now I see kits with SL-2s, 24-70 Vario, AND Leica M adapter!  Buy it !!!

Thank you, It's so much simpler to be told what to do. 😊

 

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10 minutes ago, lucy63 said:

Thank you, It's so much simpler to be told what to do. 😊

 

I wish someone would tell me to get the CL to use traveling with M lenses.  My Q was all I needed in Italy for three weeks but a 50/2 and 90mm/2.8 would have been nice.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb SonomaBear:

I also use the Sigma 24-70/2.8 as my go-to lens, Sigma 85/1.4 or Summicron-M 90 for portraits, then other M lenses for specific needs.  The IQ of the 24-70/2.8 is incredible and clients love the results.  Now I see kits with SL-2s, 24-70 Vario, AND Leica M adapter!  Buy it !!!

For me as a relative new SL2 user, I own also the Sigma 24-70 f2.8 which is a great lens and the Sigma DN DG 85 f1.4 that is my favorite lens now.

Still coming: Sigma 14-24 Wideangle and ONE native Leica Sl lens (still not decided which one).

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27 minutes ago, satijntje said:

For me as a relative new SL2 user, I own also the Sigma 24-70 f2.8 which is a great lens and the Sigma DN DG 85 f1.4 that is my favorite lens now.

Still coming: Sigma 14-24 Wideangle and ONE native Leica Sl lens (still not decided which one).

TY for this..Yeah, I'd like one too I think and not sure either, 35 or 50. As an AF lens I may have more confidence to get closer with a 35, less intrusive than the slower focusing M.

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I have an order in for a Vario 24-70. Still waiting for one. … but I am becoming impatient, it seems as if all of them are being sold as a kit, bundled with the SL2 and SL2s. I normally do not complain about camera companies…they do what they do. But it seems like Leica is treating its long time SL2 owners pretty shabbily. And still no firmware update for the SL2. I would love to be posting images made with the Vario…
 

Edited by Jeffry Abt
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In this case, you are comparing a good Sigma-designed Leica zoom lens to some of the best prime lenses ever made. Assuming you have the depth of field for it in your composition, the prime lenses will be sharper wide open than the 24-70mm at any aperture.  You can have a look at the data sheets and see the proof of this in the MTF...the 50mm APO is at 65% contrast in the extreme corner at f2, while the 24-70mm is around 20% at 2.8, still at 20% at f5.6 and climbs to 40% at f8. What does this mean in real photography? It means that your edges are noticeably fuzzy and low in contrast. If you are primarily using the lens for portraits and casual use, you are unlikely to notice or be bothered by it. If you like to do landscape photography or other kinds of photography where homogenous sharpness are important, the APO summicron line is going to make a huge difference for you. Basically, it means that photos shot with the SL Summicrons are crystal clear, sharp and with vibrant contrast and color from edge to edge at every aperture and focusing distance, within the depth of focus. They are the perfect lenses to just buy once and forget about that focal length forever. I use my 50mm APO Summicron as an art reproduction lens as it is sharper close up than even the 120mm APO Summarit S Macro lens, one of the best macro lenses of all time.

In my own personal experience, I tried the 24-90 zoom, which is better in the corners than the 24-70, and found that I much preferred the 50mm APO. I found that the convenience of a zoom was offset by the massive size, and since it has inferior optical performance as well, it did not make sense for me. At the moment I am using Sigma 24mm and 35mm primes, the 50mm APO Summicron, and M 90mm and 135mm lenses to round out the kit as needed. I can leave some of them home or in the bag if I don't need them, whereas if you get the big heavy zooms, you are stuck with carrying all your lenses at once...on the camera no less. So I would advise the other way than most here. The best argument in favor of the SL system is the SL summicrons, so I think it would be a shame to miss out on them.

Edited by Stuart Richardson
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1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

In this case, you are comparing a good Sigma-designed Leica zoom lens to some of the best prime lenses ever made. Assuming you have the depth of field for it in your composition, the prime lenses will be sharper wide open than the 24-70mm at any aperture.  You can have a look at the data sheets and see the proof of this in the MTF...the 50mm APO is at 65% contrast in the extreme corner at f2, while the 24-70mm is around 20% at 2.8, still at 20% at f5.6 and climbs to 40% at f8. What does this mean in real photography? It means that your edges are noticeably fuzzy and low in contrast. If you are primarily using the lens for portraits and casual use, you are unlikely to notice or be bothered by it. If you like to do landscape photography or other kinds of photography where homogenous sharpness are important, the APO summicron line is going to make a huge difference for you. Basically, it means that photos shot with the SL Summicrons are crystal clear, sharp and with vibrant contrast and color from edge to edge at every aperture and focusing distance, within the depth of focus. They are the perfect lenses to just buy once and forget about that focal length forever. I use my 50mm APO Summicron as an art reproduction lens as it is sharper close up than even the 120mm APO Summarit S Macro lens, one of the best macro lenses of all time.

In my own personal experience, I tried the 24-90 zoom, which is better in the corners than the 24-70, and found that I much preferred the 50mm APO. I found that the convenience of a zoom was offset by the massive size, and since it has inferior optical performance as well, it did not make sense for me. At the moment I am using Sigma 24mm and 35mm primes, the 50mm APO Summicron, and M 90mm and 135mm lenses to round out the kit as needed. I can leave some of them home or in the bag if I don't need them, whereas if you get the big heavy zooms, you are stuck with carrying all your lenses at once...on the camera no less. So I would advise the other way than most here. The best argument in favor of the SL system is the SL summicrons, so I think it would be a shame to miss out on them.

Yes, I've come to this opinion, without a doubt the weight of the zoom would cancel my enjoyment of using the camera, this is the cherry on top of my decision, TY!.. I've decided on the SL2s (phew) and now see-sawing between the 35 and 50 SL. I like people/street photography but was self conscious shooting close up and slowly with the rangefinder so the 50 won over 35 but the faster AF 35 shooting might allow me to get closer. I'm undecided because I also like to isolate folk in shots, sometimes. I feel blessed to have such a dilemma. 

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If you were going for the SL2, I would say the 35mm, as it is fairly easy to crop to 50-60mm with 47mp, but if you are using the SL2S, I would suggest getting the focal length you use the most. My guess is that if you are a bit self-conscious shooting close, you might feel a bit more so with the larger camera and lens, so that would make me think that perhaps the 50mm is better, and it also has more potential for subject isolation. That said, the 35mm is a great "one lens" kit, as it can stand in for both a wide angle and a standard lens as needed.

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The 24-90mm, which is said to perform slightly better than the 24-70s, is close to a universal lens if you are out shooting without a specific purpose. The main differences between it and the primes that you will notice are in the rendering, which I suspect is only something that other photographers look at.  It also has 24mm, which is not yet available as a SL Summicron, although there is a Sigma 24mm compact that may serve as a stop gap.  I resisted for a long time, preferring to stick with my M lenses, on the grounds of bulk and weight, which is why I first went to the Leica system,  but the convenience of having to carry only single lens often err outweighs carrying several primes. It was also handy to have built in optical image stabilisation in the lens. 

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1 hour ago, jrp said:

although there is a Sigma 24mm compact that may serve as a stop gap

I have the Sigma 24mm f/3.5 DN DG and it is amazingly sharp. I’ve shared some 100MP multi-shot crops here: 

Having both the Sigma 24mm and the Leica 28mm APO SL, I see room for both. The Sigma is much smaller and, at 225g, lighter then any M-lens + M-adapter L combo that you can put on the SL body, including the 28mm Summaron. The Sigma is sharp to the corners, even on a 100 MP multi-shot image.

If the yet to be released 24mm APO SL behaves similarly to the 28mm APO SL, then I would expect the 24mm APO to be noticeably sharper than the Sigma at close focusing distances (<1m), offer a unique bokeh and a rendering that is characteristic of the APO SL prime lineup which I would describe as being a very fast and smooth fall off from the focal plane when shot wide open, coupled with high contrast within the focal plane, and low contrast in the out of focus regions. One last advantage would be that the APO SL would be fully weather sealed whereas the Sigma only has a gasket around the lens mount.

It would be safe to say that the 24mm APO SL would offer something unique that the Sigma 24mm cannot achieve in terms of rendering but it also comes at a cost of being 3x the weight and 9.5x the price. And, when stopped down to f/8 and focused to infinity, I would be willing to bet that no one can tell which lens is which when shot at 100 MP. So I would still choose the Sigma over the APO SL if I intend to shoot primarily stopped down to f/5.6 or f/8 at infinity for landscapes and I wanted to travel light, such as on a long hike or when mountaineering where I have a lot of other non-photo gear. Plus, when comparing the price of the Sigma 24mm vs the APO SL prime, the Sigma is almost disposable should anything go wrong. :) 

Edited by beewee
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