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M10 or SL2 S?


bernabei

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Hi everyone,

I'll be moving away from my 12 year old Canon body and wanted a camera to use everyday. Given this requirement, I was keen on checking out the M10 with a 35 summicron. I recently tried this setup at a Leica store and really liked the compact RF setup. As an everyday camera, size/weight is definitely really important and this is one area the M system shines. However, I can't quite get over the fact that the skill set of the M is a little limited. A mirrorless camera will allow me to also dabble in the limited landscape/wildlife stuff I do whenever I travel. The SL2 S seems to be a camera which can do most things pretty well though it may not be the best as a camera to use during general day to day stuff. In the future (say in 1-3 years), I see myself having an M and a mirrorless due to their vastly different abilities but right now, I need to think about where to start. I think that a practical approach would be to start with a SL2 S and use an M 35 summicron with it. This would not be too large a setup and the SL system would allow me to use some other lenses for landscape or wildlife as the need arises. I've heard that the BSI sensor on the SL2 S is also really good and it would really excel in many scenarios. In a while (maybe when the M11 launches?), I could potentially get an M body and thereby have the best of both worlds. But as it stands today, I need to decide between the M10 + 35 summicron vs SL2 S + M 35 summicron and would love to hear your thoughts (both options are around 8k-9k USD). Any other suggestions are also welcome.

I haven't used the SL2 S but how does it behave as an EDC with small M glass? Even if the size isn't too much more, does the extra weight (930 gms vs 660 gms for the M10) pose challenges? Is the M10 sensor dated now and am I better off waiting for a bit?

Please let me know what you think!

Cheers!

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I just happen to have both the M10 and SL2-S.

4 hours ago, bernabei said:

I haven't used the SL2 S but how does it behave as an EDC with small M glass?

Handling is better with small M glass than native L-mount lenses but you’ll still notice the weight of the body as compared to an M10. Also, most M glass, especially <50mm will not perform as well on the SL2-S as compared to on an M body, despite what Leica tries to tell you. I definitely prefer the weight and size of the M10 over the SL2-S.

4 hours ago, bernabei said:

Even if the size isn't too much more, does the extra weight (930 gms vs 660 gms for the M10) pose challenges?

If I can only choose to reduce either weight or size of the SL2-S, I would want to reduce the weight. The size is not really that big of a deal, at least for me. I actually like the ergonomics and a lot of that has to do with the size and how things are laid out. It’s the weight that’s most noticeable to me. It balances well with larger L-mount lenses but it’s still a heavy body and going with an M prime or even APO SL prime helps to reduce the total weight but even a 100g triplet lens on the SL2-S still requires a ~200g M-adapter L which, combined, is as much as a 35mm FLE! In short, the 930g SL2-S will become a 1.13kg (2.5lbs) body even without a lens when using an M-adapter L. Add a 255g 35mm Summicron-M ASPH and you’re at 1.38kg (3lbs). An M10 with the same lens will be 915g (2lbs), so the SL2-S setup will weigh 50% more which is instantly noticeable.

4 hours ago, bernabei said:

Is the M10 sensor dated now and am I better off waiting for a bit?

Depends on what you need. If you don’t need more resolution, then it will never be ‘out of date’ for you. If you are not doing any ‘available darkness’ photography or astrophotography where you need very low noise, very high ISO, long exposures, then the sensor will never be ‘out of date’. For any daytime or indoor photography, the M10 sensor is more than sufficient.

 

5 hours ago, bernabei said:

In a while (maybe when the M11 launches?), I could potentially get an M body and thereby have the best of both worlds.

If the M11 is anything like the M10, you’ll need to wait a while to get one unless you have a very good relationship with your Leica dealer and you put a deposit down before the camera gets released. The few rumors that indicate a Nov 11 announcement also mention that it will be a few months before initial availability and like most Leica M bodies, they will be in high demand with limited supply for another 12-18 months after it hits the market.

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I own a SL2-S (and SL and SL2 before that) and would never consider it as an everyday camera - too heavy, too large and obvious. But then my everyday camera is a CL, which is lighter and smaller than the M10. For a while I had a M240 as well but, between SL and CL, it didn't get used enough to justify its presence in the house. 

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I use both a M10 and a SL and like both cameras. But I take the M10 with me about 90% of the time for the same reasons Paul stated above. Additionally, the I enjoy the simple rangefinder experience far more than the technology packed SL (2S). And the difference in size and weight also add to my M10 preference.

 

https://tomniblick.photoshelter.com/index

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I'm an M10 and MP user....delightfully small and superb in most ways....all cameras are a compromise so for wildlife etc I use a Nikon D5.......it is a behemoth of a camera and with its 300 f2.8, about 8 lbs ...so! I'm actively looking to swap the DSLR for a mirrorless and currently ams withering between an SL2 and Nikon Z7ii. both highly capable of great results with my M glass (of which I've a lot!).  its difficult but my advice is get the M first, a decent used M10 makes sense as some of the best are very reasonable. , add the SLbody  later (if at all)

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Spend more time thinking about what you personally *really* want.  The forum is full of posts from people who got one camera, felt disappointed, and sold it at a significant loss to get a different one  … sometimes even more than once.

I’m a professional photographer and the M10 has a superb sensor with more than enough resolution.  Unless you are printing billboards or simply love zooming in to admire your sharpness, the megapixel count is mostly irrelevant.  

I chose the M10, even over a newer Leica S body, because for me it truly hits the sweet spot of size and impeccable quality.  If it has the same longevity of my M9, I expect I’ll still be making work with it for most of the remaining decade. :)

Edited by shanefking
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For me the biggest difference is having autofocus. While I'm quick with a rangefinder having used an M for decades now, I'd rather have autofocus for casual photos of family. The truth is that my phone really provides good enough quality for family snaps. If I photographed events or professional portraits, I'd use an SL2 for the autofocus and the size/conspicuousness doesn't matter if you are there to capture images. For everyday carry ijncluding travel it's the M10 for me for size and image quality.

Then again, the Q2 is light, has autofocus and captures great images that can be cropped when the 28mm doesn't have enough reach. It's been one of Leica's big success stories.

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  • 6 months later...

Would 24mm Elmar M and 35mm FLE perform worse with SL2-S than on M?

I mean, the above sounds like SL2-S doesn’t have that “special” optics in front of the sensor than M does and alows for wide angle M lenses to be used with little to no corner degradation.

Edited by mirekti
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This is an entirely subjective topic, but let me have a crack at my views.

I've been playing around with a SL2-S and I have a m10r.

The reason for the SL2S - IS, High ISO performance for colour usage, electronic shutter and longer lens capability.

Whilst I love the idea of being fully within the Leica ecosystem (ie can use AF and MF lenses on the SL), the M still wins overall for me. Smaller package, quicker (manual) focus on shorter lenses which (oddly) I find more accurate. 

SL2S better in Low ISO and a dream to focus the 75mm Summilux that I have. But I really struggle with shorter lenses and critical focussing. I'll be honest, hasn't been a major issue, but I've found I've just missed focus more than I'd like with the SL vs M. Then again, I've shot with the M for years. The other thing that I find hard is moving subjects - if someone is running towards me I can follow or prefocus a lot more easily on an m - with the focus patch I find it easier to predict the point of focus and fire at the right time. 

But you know what photography that you do.

If you want a portable package to use with a short lens my gut says the M is the answer.

 

Just to give an alternative view.....one idea that I am about to try - the 35mm Sigma DG DN F2 lens - small package, definitely not in the SL35mm category for IQ - but if you want to have the SL2S as a walk around package with the upside of AF, then it could be an option. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Tp2000 said:

This is an entirely subjective topic, but let me have a crack at my views.

I've been playing around with a SL2-S and I have a m10r.

The reason for the SL2S - IS, High ISO performance for colour usage, electronic shutter and longer lens capability.

Whilst I love the idea of being fully within the Leica ecosystem (ie can use AF and MF lenses on the SL), the M still wins overall for me. Smaller package, quicker (manual) focus on shorter lenses which (oddly) I find more accurate. 

SL2S better in Low ISO and a dream to focus the 75mm Summilux that I have. But I really struggle with shorter lenses and critical focussing. I'll be honest, hasn't been a major issue, but I've found I've just missed focus more than I'd like with the SL vs M. Then again, I've shot with the M for years. The other thing that I find hard is moving subjects - if someone is running towards me I can follow or prefocus a lot more easily on an m - with the focus patch I find it easier to predict the point of focus and fire at the right time. 

But you know what photography that you do.

If you want a portable package to use with a short lens my gut says the M is the answer.

 

Just to give an alternative view.....one idea that I am about to try - the 35mm Sigma DG DN F2 lens - small package, definitely not in the SL35mm category for IQ - but if you want to have the SL2S as a walk around package with the upside of AF, then it could be an option. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As if by magic - as I pressed submit on this the door went and the mailman arrived with a used Sigma 65mm and 35mm lens.

Quick test this evening and I'll be honest, very impressed by the SL2S with the 65mm and, from the back of the screen, the 35mm looks even sharper (but could simply be low light and better DOF for focussing).

Might be worth testing.

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