M262 - General

[Loomis77]

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Afternoon all

Just a query from a relative newbie. At the beginning of the year, I purchased an M262 and use it with Voigtlander 50mm and 35mm lenses. I absolutely love the camera and am puzzled as to why pretty much all the talk in the forum concerns either the M240 or the M-D262? I see the M262 as simplicity itself (in terms of controls / settings /etc.) which affords me greater time trying to learn the art of photography with a pared down camera. I just done understand why it is not more popular! Is it because fewer were made? Lack of LiveView? Lack of video? Any other reason?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

Ben

[jaeger]

really?  I read a lot of blogs about M262 here and everywhere.  howevere, it the M240 without video, what would you like to hear more?

Edited June 30, 2021 by jaeger

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[a.noctilux]

I was one of early adopters of the camera when launched.

Special handy, lightweight (aluminium top ), handsome ( top cut out 'à la M9/Monochrom'), short two pages 'menu', dedicated WB button,

very long lasting battery, and so many more 'features/non-features' ) that people neglicted the M(typ 262) when launched and years later.

Some weird things to learn to know 😉, like here for B&W jpeg

28mm framelines

even some lovers !

some questionings as here

or here

and for two ?

exposure

can be tricky to learn/use

and many more ...

 

Less buyers/users, less features, so less questions in our site, many newbies questions were 'solved' quickly,

not so many real 'flaws', etc.

 

Ben, happy use of your M(typ 262).

 

edit ...

happily, I found this old thread 😍

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by a.noctilux

[marchyman]

Guess: the M 262 was seen as a lessor camera due to its reduced feature set.  Lack of live view possibly turned some away, too.  The camera fit my desires well and I was happy to save a few dollars, too.

Edited June 30, 2021 by marchyman

[pippy]

6 hours ago, Loomis77 said:

...I absolutely love the camera and.........I just done understand why it is not more popular! Is it because fewer were made? Lack of LiveView? Lack of video? Any other reason?...

Hi Ben!

No idea. I, too, thought there was a great deal to love about the M262 when it was released and actually would have chosen it because of it's lack of those two (for me useless) features in comparison to the M240. Even the 'little things' such as the smaller Red Dot and the M9-esque step at the 'rewind-knob end' of the top-plate were big plus points for me.

I've also no idea about production numbers in comarison to the M240 but it might be that there were far more of the latter crafted and, if so, it would follow that there are far more users of the 240 than the 262 who might be posting here.

Live View does seem to be a quite popular feature - even just the possibility of it being there were it to be needed - so that might account for some of the greater popularity (assuming that is the case) of the 240 over the 262. Certainly when the 262 was superceeded by the M-E240 it seems that the biggest change was that Live View had been reinstated.

As far as all the talk in the Forum about the M-D 262 goes that is possibly down to the relative difficulty in finding out 'stuff' relating to them due to their rarity.

I echo Arnaud's wishes that you have a great many happy and productive shooting days with your 262!

Philip.

Edited June 30, 2021 by pippy

[Adam Bonn]

For my hunch the 262 possibly offended the purists with aluminium as much as video offended them on the 240!!!

I suspect it wasn't that long after it's release that M10 rumours started appearing so some sitting on the fence would of held off to see how that panned out

Another hunch is that it was sort of marketed to the M9 crowd, but at time of its release the M9 was readily available (new as the M-E and abundantly secondhand) and still covered by the sensor replacement program (so if you wanted an M9 you probably just got one!)

The 240 was (and continues to be) lauded as having not as nice images as the M9.

So the 262 sorted ended up not fixing (sic) the online crit of the 240 (although by most accounts the 262 images are a bit nicer than 240 ones), whilst also not offering the feature set of the 240...

Then the M10 came along and the 262 got quietly dropped...

Future classic for sure... AFAIK already commanding a higher price on the secondhand market than a similar vintage 240

[Guest]

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I have 2 M262 cameras and i feel sad that leica chose not to make an M10 version of the camera because no other leica or camera in the world really appeals to me now.

My feeling is that it did not sell well because it falls between the all singing/dancing live view,touch screen ,EVF add on M10 and the back to basics screen less M10 D [though the M10D is absurd because you have to use some app for the self timer].

So if i am lucky enough to still be here 10 years from now when my m262 cameras break down its unlikely any camera will appeal to me.

On the m262 you have to self timer and the continuous on the on/off switch which is perfect for me but abandoned by leica.

In fairness to leica you cannot please all the people all of the time and i really love my leica m equipment .

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by steve 1959

[d30gaijin]

It appears the M Type 262 is the camera a lot of people thought they wanted but one that no one really asked for.  I bought my 262 specifically because it was a very simple camera.  I had no interest in video, live view, etc.  I wanted a camera in digital about as close as I could get to my M6.  The 262 provides exactly that for me.  Some folks really like the MD with no screen on the back.  That seems stupid to me.  The screen adds almost nothing (other than a reduced cost... figure that one out please???) but allows you easy access to the controls within the camera, ease of firmware updates, a sneak at the image you just took, if you want too.  Most often I don't do the latter.  I shoot with the rear screen off and wait to get home to view my shots on the computer.  Yes, you can do that with the MD/P versions but I like that I can shoot jpegs.  Can't do that with the screen less cameras.

The M262 is way under-rated and is an excellent camera.  I'm venturing to say that in a few more years it will be recognized for what it brings to the market.  Simplicity in an uncluttered camera that has a lot more flexibility than its screenless cousins.  The M9 is approaching ancient but some people insist on carrying it on for some reason and it remains quite popular as does its descendent M240.  Nothing wrong with that.  To each their own.

While I have been shooting digital for about as long as it's been available, when it came to Leica digital I waited and researched, and looked for sales.  I finally settled on the M 262.  I have no regrets.

I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine.

Don 

Edited July 2, 2021 by d30gaijin

[pippy]

2 hours ago, d30gaijin said:

...The screen adds almost nothing (other than a reduced cost... figure that one out please???)...

Economies of scale.

With the M-D Typ-262 the lack of screen and everything associated with it necessitated different body-shell machining and assembly processes from the usual fare. The decision to put the ISO dial on the rear of the camera alone dictated a great amount of redesign and both software & hardware changes. The lack of screen-menus necessitated a completely reworked software package and the different operating procedures required different systems. The in-viewfinder information was reworked with new hardware being designed / fitted. The Image Field Selector Lever (and all that it requires) was reinstated.

All of these changes had to be paid for somehow. If - as seems likely - there were only 1400 M-Ds made this cost-increase was shared by a relatively small run of cameras.

Philip.

Edited July 2, 2021 by pippy

[a.noctilux]

Philip,

as user for many years now of the two M-D and M262, I don't see why or how M-D 262 or M262 can please same people (minus myself of course 😉).

Same for my two Monochroms ( and more ...on films for example).

So argumentations for one or the other IS useless if sometimes they can be funny, nothing serious.

I see how and why I choose one or other M (or lenses) to use, ... that is only to 'make each new day different to the former day', and yes no logical thinking can help.

[jhluxton]

On 6/30/2021 at 6:29 PM, a.noctilux said:

 

 

Yes that was me back in 2016.

Went off a day or two after buying it to a railway event and as I did with the V-Lux / X-1 and X-Vario carried on shooting JPGs.

Following words of advice on this forum I switched to DNG, signed up to the Adobe Lightroom / Photoshop sub and have never had so much photo fun post processing. 

In 2019 I took advantage of the M-E240 offer and bought one of those. Now I tend to use the ME240 with a 28mm Elmarit and the M262 with a 75mm Summarit. Saves changing lenses and consequently reduces sensor dust problems. Have now switched to using DNG with the V-Lux and X1 as well. Only problem I am now facing is a nearly full PC hard drive with all those DNG files stored thereon and will have to look to some external storage  devices within next few months.

Of the two cameras I do prefer the M262 it is sleeker and actually feels a bit different. However, the ME240 will allow me to go wider than 28mm which I intend to do one day without a viewfinder something I had not thought about when I went for the M262 over the then M240.

John

 

 

[pippy]

3 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Philip,

as user for many years now of the two M-D and M262, I don't see why or how M-D 262 or M262 can please same people (minus myself of course 😉)...

I could have been very satisfied indeed with an M262, Arnaud (as I mentioned in post #5 above), but having seen that my M9-P always stayed at home once the M-D 262 arrived I knew that an M262, had I bought one, would suffer the same fate and so, instead, chose to replace the 9-P with an M Monochrom and have been a happy bunny ever since.

I feel no need nor desire to change either of them. What would be the point? They fulfill my own personal requirements perfectly as it is.

Philip.

[a.noctilux]

John, I'm glad to hear that you keep your M262 with the good new companion ME240.

 

Philip, M-D and Monochrom complete each other so well...

Sometimes, I do carry one of each when traveling as I don't know which one to use but only one in each day as colour/b&w must (for me) be choosen as mindset.

 

[pippy]

17 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

...Philip, M-D and Monochrom complete each other so well......Sometimes, I do carry one of each when traveling as I don't know which one to use but only one in each day as colour/b&w must (for me) be choosen as mindset...

As it happens, Arnaud, two days ago (in another thread) I wrote about my usual routine if I'm carrying - and using - both bodies (on that occasion swapping between a 21mm f4 Super-Angulon and a 28mm Elmarit asph);

"...for the snapping-session mentioned above (Wednesday last week) I had an Orange filter on the 21mm and a Yellow on the 28mm which reinforced this "B&W mind-set" from the very start..."

Quite often I will use Yellow or Orange filters on the M-D because I know that 99% of the photographs will be printed-out as B'n'W images but, yes, usually I will only take one camera and it will almost always be the M-D which gets chosen.

Philip.

Edited July 2, 2021 by pippy

[a.noctilux]

In my experience, it was not good idea to use coloured filter with colour sensor.

Sometimes I forgot to take out filter when I swapped camera, like here with M9, sweet red Ireland for some frames.

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not so bad luck 😏

[pippy]

I can hear the famous Irish lament now: "The Red, Red Grass of Home!"...

Yes; there's always that possibility; I did it once and ruined an entire roll of Kodachrome! I knew there was a (Yellow) filter on the camera's lens but I was using the M2 and my Nikon F and had mixed up which film was in which body...DOH!!!...

I'm about to go off-topic for a moment but the main reason I chose to carry both bodies that day when using those particular lenses was because, as you are well aware, TTL metering doesn't work with the 21mm f4 S-A and so the M Monochrom was acting - at least in part - as my exposure meter for the M-D as well as being a second body (reducing the number of times lenses needed to be swapped). I don't use the 21 with the M-D often for obvious reasons! I suppose I could always just use my Weston?...

I've given up using Red filters due to the focus-shift of the red end of the spectrum and my not having APO lenses. One argument in favour of LiveView it has to be said! The shift isn't too bad with very wide lenses, it's true, but an Orange works nicely most of the time without being OTT in the Drama stakes.

Philip.

[a.noctilux]

Let's go out of topic then, we can say that this S-A 4/21can be adapted to M262 also 😉.

I like the S-A 4/21 and used it with films and sensors for long.

Rule of thumb for exposure with S-A 4/21 is in M camera cells see minus 3EV to 3.5EV ( at infinity as this lens can focus to 40cm moving forward/hide less the cell beam reading ! ), with or without colored filter, so easy compensation is setting +3EV, then bracket for more or less corner vignetting as usual.

Good thing that this 21mm accepts E39 filter as many Leitz/Leica lenses.

[pippy]

21 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

...Rule of thumb for exposure with S-A 4/21 is in M camera cells see minus 3EV to 3.5EV......so easy compensation is setting +3EV...

How do I set that on the M-D, Arnaud?......

Yes; on the first day the lens arrived I worked out roughly what adjustment to make as a general rule (although in my tests it happened to be 3.5 to 4) but the other day I expected the EV range of the subject matter to be tricky to get right as I was heading into a dark forest on a very sunny day - hence the presence of the Monochrom.

Here's one of the snaps from the M-D / 21 f4 pairing. EV from deepest shadow to brightest highlight was around 14 stops IIRC so quite a lot of very

careful use of the sliders with the DNG file in Ps;

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Doesn't look it here but it has a rather beautiful quality to it when printed.

This frame was actually shot in colour. The naturally-occurring (micro-lens derived) vignette is sort-of visible at both sides and aids the image IMO.

Philip.

Edited July 2, 2021 by pippy

[a.noctilux]

Look nice on my screen.

Ruins are always (well most of the time ) not easy to render in pictures.

Yes in deep (or mainly tropical) forest, the light when we see can be interesting, but in pictures not so great in my experience.

Here Philip you managed to "render the picture not too contrasty", not easy task ...

Good use of the 4/21 to get those 14 Stops.

 

...

To re-enter into topic, here is a snap from M(typ 262) maybe with the 4/21 ? Or one of S-A 28mm PC lens I used then to keep things up straight, even without EVF/LV,

sorry I didn't note the lens in use.

 

artists decoration of old stone

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Loomis77]

Thank you all for your thoughts and great shots; really interesting to hear different views. As I say, what attracts me to the M262 is its elegance and simplicity (whilst, somewhat paradoxically, fully acknowledging I have some way to go to master it and nail the focus!).

With thanks and best wishes to you all,

Ben