I ordered the m10-r black paint

[MikeMyers]

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Very strange thread - are people buying this camera to "collect it", or to take photos?  

I've "only" got an M10, from a couple of years ago but the only things I worry about are getting it wet.  I use it like I have used all my other cameras, to take photos.  If it was going to cost me a thousand dollars or more to get a special paint, I would have no interest in that.  I'm not even sure what finish is on my M10 - never thought about it.  It gets treated nicely, but so do all my other cameras.  

20 hours ago, satijntje said:

BTW, I sold my M11 to replace it with the M10-R Black Paint.

I can understand this, as I would prefer to continue using my M10 rather than buying an M11, but why would you replace an M11 with an M10-R ?  From everything I've read, the M11 seems to me like a step backward, but that's from my point of view.  Isn't the M11 the "latest and greatest"?  I don't like the new way the shutter and metering works, even if it is more precise.  I don't care about access to the battery and memory card.  Having already decided all this for myself, I found a web page putting into words the types of things I was reading about.  It's a long article, and it sounds like the M11 is a step sideways, not forwards.  I would prefer an M10-R I think, but none of the improvements are that important to me.

If I was a camera collector (which I sort of am, with old cameras) that might make a difference, but I have two cameras for shooting, my M10 and a Nikon D780.  For both, what I care about is the results, and the lenses (which are mostly Voigtlander now).  

[Ouroboros]

Seems a bit weird that someone would buy a camera and be afraid to use it!

 

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[MikeMyers]

1 hour ago, Ouroboros said:

Seems a bit weird that someone would buy a camera and be afraid to use it!

If I had the money, and if I enjoyed just having beautiful things, I can accept that - but I would then buy two of them, one to just enjoy having, and another to take photos with.  I sort of did that with my Nikon Df, a limited production camera, that now is unavailable, and is going up in value.  But my Nikon D750, now D780, are better, and those are cameras I use.  I rarely use my Df.  Long story.  It's another camera I bought as an "open box sale".  It was new.  I like it, but I prefer using my other Nikons.

I don't see that it matters which type of "black" I get.  My M10 was "black", but there weren't choices for which type of "black".

I think this forum needs to split up the M10-R area into those who want to use it, and those who want to collect it.  Leica has made, and now makes, "collectable" cameras, and lenses.  I can understand putting those away in a safe, and not using, but the main purpose of this forum is for those of us who actually want to use them.  IMHO.

Edited October 31, 2022 by MikeMyers

[jakontil]

7 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

 

I don't see that it matters which type of "black" I get.  My M10 was "black", but there weren't choices for which type of "black".

I think this forum needs to split up the M10-R area into those who want to use it, and those who want to collect it.  Leica has made, and now makes, "collectable" cameras, and lenses.  I can understand putting those away in a safe, and not using, but the main purpose of this forum is for those of us who actually want to use them.  IMHO.

It’s because M10 only came in black chrome, while m10r was first with a black chrome and then a limited run of black paint without the red logo and a leica script on top

i think the forum is a mixed for leica users, either wanna use and shoot with it or just to collect .. they are still users

[MikeMyers]

Maybe collectors could use this:   

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/forum/35-leica-collectors-historica/

[Mikep996]

I had no intention of "collecting" my M10R BP.  But it seems I will become a collector if I keep it since I seem to have become too worried about it to use it!    Heck, I was out today with my (1984) Leica M6 in the rain - never worried about it or any other Leica I have owned getting wet/dented/scratched/frozen, etc.  My M10 is quite well worn as well.  

Heck, I guess I can "collect" one camera!  

[DirkR440]

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I'm also planing to use mine like any other Leica I had before. This one is just to beautiful to hide it in a box at home.

[MikeMyers]

Everything has changed so much.  Back when I had a Nikon SP, and worked at Olden Camera, I thought the Leica M2 was a better camera, not for looks, but for ease of use.  I never really did like the focusing "dial" on the top of my SP and my older Contax.  The Leica let me turn the lens directly.  I took it to college, and used it for everything (until it got stolen).  Then eventually I got an M3 and another M2, both of which I still have. Don at DAG Cameras has made my M3 perfect.  My M2 is sort of ragged, but works.  I worked for the college newspaper, and used them for anything and everything.  I started seeing some of the photos coming in from Vietnam, where the Leica was apparently good in all kinds of weather, was very, very rugged, and as a photojournalist, I loved it even more.  

Now, I dunno.  I've still got the film Leica's, and my M10.  I always worry about the M10 - if it's raining, that camera stays home.  I suspect I don't need to worry so much.  The M10 is very straight-forward, and easy to use for most things - and the difficult things are because I'm older, and have nothing to do with the camera.  It's small enough, and quiet enough, and powerful enough, that I could start taking it with me anywhere I go.  But back then, cameras were expensive, but affordable.  They were mechanical, not electronic.  My attitude towards the M10 isn't like what it was years ago with my film Leica's.  If I bought a new body today, with a special shiny black paint, and paid $10,000 for it, I doubt I could ever treat it the way I used to treat my cameras - just tools.   Sitting here writing this, I'm tempted to get out my old film Leica's, and wear them the way I wear my shoes, without thinking too much about the camera - just about using it.

1 hour ago, DirkR440 said:

This one is just to beautiful to hide it in a box at home.

To me, that's a problem.  I never before bought a camera because it was beautiful, and never really thought about cameras in those terms.  It was function that counted, not beauty.  Also, back then, while Leica was never "cheap", they were certainly affordable, at least for me.  

I shouldn't be posting here in this discussion.  I don't fit in.  My attitude towards cameras doesn't fit in.  My attitude towards Leica certainly doesn't fit in.  Decades ago, it was "rugged", "reliable", "reasonably affordable", and very capable.  I watch all the "Red Dot Forum" videos, and they're in a different world from where I live.  Maybe being retired, with no income, has something to do with that.  

[Mikep996]

What I need to do - but won't - is to "scar" my BP so I won't worry about it any more.  

Years ago I bought a Gibson Hummingbird guitar that I was very careful with.  One day it fell from its guitar stand and broke the headstock.  I had it repaired and since then, I have never worried about it. It goes outside for gigs several days/week, has numerous scratches, the nitro-lacquer finish is badly checking, etc.  Once I quit worrying about, it became my go-everwhere gig guitar.  I've used it in the rain, direct hot sun, etc.  I just do not worry about it at all.

I guess I need a similar accident to befall my MP!   But it has to be an accident, I couldn't bring myself to intentionally damage it! 😱

Again, I can't really explain why I have never had the same concern with the other Leica's (or other cameras) I own/have owned.🤔

[jakontil]

Yeah the first cut always the deepest, i used RRS grip, intentionally to like protect it from accidental bump, but the grip actually scratched the plate next to the preview? Or whatever button

hairy scratches.. since i dont really care much anymore 😂😂😂

[DirkR440]

with the Voigtländer 50mm f1.2

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[Chimichurri]

A second hand camera place just posted a 10R Black Paint. It’s like $400 below what I paid for it brand new. 😀

Black Paint must be all the rage now. 

Of course it’s in minty condition. Not even a scratch on it. Not mine! 

[jakontil]

The new one went crazy, and on grey market, a brand new one which i believe was intentionally unused, pricing above the m11 brand new 😂

[MikeMyers]

8 minutes ago, jakontil said:

a brand new one which i believe was intentionally unused, pricing above the m11 brand new

Which (if either) is the better camera, the M11 or the M10-R ?  

In the future, will one of them be recognized as "superb", or might one of them be seen as having "issues"?

Leica's M5 was said to have a lot of wonderful new features, but the market rejected it. 

[DirkR440]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Chimichurri:

A second hand camera place just posted a 10R Black Paint. It’s like $400 below what I paid for it brand new. 😀

Black Paint must be all the rage now. 

Of course it’s in minty condition. Not even a scratch on it. Not mine! 

interesting. Where did you see that one? I was browsing a bit and I didn't find any on the market

[Jeff S]

3 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

Which (if either) is the better camera, the M11 or the M10-R ?  

In the future, will one of them be recognized as "superb", or might one of them be seen as having "issues"?

Leica's M5 was said to have a lot of wonderful new features, but the market rejected it. 

Not better or worse, but I suspect that the M11 will be considered a transitional camera, introducing some new design/features, while the M10-R (especially BP) will be viewed as the last of the successful M10 platform, if not the apex for many.  All Leica digital M cameras have had ‘teething’ issues, so I don’t think that aspect matters.  The M9 put the M11 to shame with all its early issues, but those got resolved through FW updates, user adjustments, etc.
 

Jeff

[jakontil]

8 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

Which (if either) is the better camera, the M11 or the M10-R ?  

In the future, will one of them be recognized as "superb", or might one of them be seen as having "issues"?

Leica's M5 was said to have a lot of wonderful new features, but the market rejected it. 

Hi mike, on paper of course the M11 is the better camera.. but then you will never stop in search of the better camera out there..

i prefer which is the better camera for me hahahah, i believe the photos i created using both cameras are on par.. which difficult to pick which is more preferable 

but i think i prefer the blackpaint to take out and shoot with… for now

u know one think i regret was letting go my m10-D a couple of years ago… and thought that was the better camera for me 

[jakontil]

4 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Not better or worse, but I suspect that the M11 will be considered a transitional camera, introducing some new design/features, while the M10-R (especially BP) will be viewed as the last of the successful M10 platform, if not the apex for many.  All Leica digital M cameras have had ‘teething’ issues, so I don’t think that aspect matters.  The M9 put the M11 to shame with all its early issues, but those got resolved through FW updates, user adjustments, etc.
 

Jeff

Yeah i think with the M10 you just have a more peace of mind, it is gonna work.. i dont know how to explain, while taking my m11 out, there are times i checked on my camera just to make sure it aint freezed 

after having both for a few months, i guess i settle with R blackpaint better for now, mind you i m obssesed with the blackpaint though so i might be biased 😂

[Jeff S]

34 minutes ago, jakontil said:

Yeah i think with the M10 you just have a more peace of mind, it is gonna work.. i dont know how to explain, while taking my m11 out, there are times i checked on my camera just to make sure it aint freezed 

after having both for a few months, i guess i settle with R blackpaint better for now, mind you i m obssesed with the blackpaint though so i might be biased 😂

I think the teething/reliability issues with the M11 will get sorted, just as they have with prior M iterations. But I think it might be a transitional camera nonetheless, given some newer but perhaps not fully realized concepts and features. Time will tell.

I traded my M10 for an M10–R  just before the M11 was released.  I’m typically not an early adopter, and I found the M10-R to be a good complement to my M10 Monochrom (though never used together). I didn’t intend to get the BP version, but the dealer made me a trade offer that I couldn’t refuse. I’m not obsessed with it or other gear; tools to be used.  But very capable and enjoyable tools.

Jeff

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[jakontil]

2 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I think the teething/reliability issues with the M11 will get sorted, just as they have with prior M iterations. But I think it might be a transitional camera nonetheless, given some newer but perhaps not fully realized concepts and features. Time will tell.

I traded my M10 for an M10–R  just before the M11 was released.  I’m typically not an early adopter, and I found the M10-R to be a good complement to my M10 Monochrom (though never used together). I didn’t intend to get the BP version, but the dealer made me a trade offer that I couldn’t refuse. I’m not obsessed with it or other gear; tools to be used.  But very capable and enjoyable tools.

Jeff

I ordered the last M10 r bP available in my area as soon as the M11 leaked.. but yeah after few months i itched to try M11 hence got it but i guess im happier with BP

my Ms are more than just a tool for me, part of me, made me wanna go out n shoot