Misaligned exposure dial on a IIIf

[Spunto the Rat Boy]

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Hello,

The exposure dial on my 1951 black dial Leica IIIf is misaligned. This doesn't seem to have any bad effects, I just need to remember that the operating exposure is at about, say, 7 o'clock instead of next to the little arrow on the shoe (at 9 o'clock).

But it would be kind of nice to have it line up properly. I read a post elsewhere in which someone suggested 1. setting the exposure to 'B' (because it's the most easily identifiable), 2. loosening the three screws which hold the exposure dial tight, 3. rotating the dial until 'B' is at 9 o'clock, and finally 3. tightening it all back up.

But those three screws aren't there on my camera, just three little holes! And yet it works. Without lifting the dial, it's impossible to rotate the dial clockwise. It's possible to rotate it anti-clockwise a short distance, but it just springs back to where it was when you let it go. To change the exposure setting you lift the dial... I mean, I know you know all that, my point is just that it works like that even without the screws.

Which is great, who cares about screws? But it is preplexing, and it means I can't realign the dial.

Or is there another way? Let's leave aside taking it to a repairer, I already know that that's the best way, but, you know, if there was something easy...

 

Thanks,
Ben

[jerzy]

Ben,  there are screws there, they are just short and hidden. Instert small flat screwdriver (1-1,2mm) into the hole and you will find the screw. But often it is not speed dial but the part below (42 532 327) that is not firmly fixed and it misalignes. There are as well 3 screws, a bit bigger and you can acces them if speed dial is lifted. Set the speed dial to 1/1000 then you get there. Tighten them and then proceed with aligning the speed dial. Check as well is shutter works on 1/1000 when flash contacts are in 0 and 20 positions. If shutter does not run than 531 327 is misaligned and this is a bit more complicated. Of course, if you do not use flash and 1/1000 works fine at any position of contact numbers than you may leave it as it is

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Edited June 22, 2021 by jerzy
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[jerzy]

Ben, sorry, wrong picture. And explanation. This is for so called red dial and  I believe you have an earlier version, SN below 615xxx. They had it differently, speed dial and 531 327 was just one piece. In order to get to the screws set speed dial to 1/1000 and align it. And forget what I wrote about aligning 531 327, it is not relevant for your version

[Spunto the Rat Boy]

Jerzy,

Thank you so much for your thorough explanation, and apologies for having taken so long to reply.

You're right, the serial number begins 545. I suspect it is a different situation from the version in the post I mentioned originally: I've seen photographs where there are screws clearly visible around the top of the speed dial, standing proud, but I eventually found mine, and they are deeply hidden, as you said, and not really accessible unless the dial is pulled up.

The shutter works perfectly well at 1000th with any flash setting, and since I don't use a flash I'm using the flash contact dial to mark the place where the speed dial needs to point. The whole process of trying to fix this begins to seem more tricky than I really want to take on myself, so I think I'm just going to leave it. Perhaps when the camera has picked up enough faults, I'll have them all fixed at once!

Thank you again for your help,
Ben

[TomB_tx]

On 6/22/2021 at 10:27 AM, Spunto the Rat Boy said:

The exposure dial on my 1951 black dial Leica IIIf is misaligned. This doesn't seem to have any bad effects, I just need to remember that the operating exposure is at about, say, 7 o'clock instead of next to the little arrow on the shoe (at 9 o'clock).

Are you winding the film/shutter before setting the shutter speed? if not the speeds will align about like you describe. On pre-M Leicas always wind the shutter before setting the speed.

[jerzy]

Ben, drawing and my comment about flash does not apply to your camera (black dial), speed dial is constructed differently, it looks like below

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there are 3 screws hidden inside. Screws are very short, you may see one on the tip of screwdriver. On this occasion - if you have tone then use  magnetized screwdriver (1-1,5mm). You will need to losen the screw salign and the screw will hold on screwdriver if loosen too much. Otherwise it may fall between the flash contact below and possibly damage it when winding.
Left photo shows the position of speed dial on all settings except 1/1000. The hole is partially covered by the guard behind but at 1/1000 (right) you may easily access the screws

[Spunto the Rat Boy]

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10 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

Are you winding the film/shutter before setting the shutter speed? if not the speeds will align about like you describe. On pre-M Leicas always wind the shutter before setting the speed.

Thanks — I always set the speed first, though!

[Spunto the Rat Boy]

3 hours ago, jerzy said:

Ben, drawing and my comment about flash does not apply to your camera (black dial), speed dial is constructed differently, it looks like below

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there are 3 screws hidden inside. Screws are very short, you may see one on the tip of screwdriver. On this occasion - if you have tone then use  magnetized screwdriver (1-1,5mm). You will need to losen the screw salign and the screw will hold on screwdriver if loosen too much. Otherwise it may fall between the flash contact below and possibly damage it when winding.
Left photo shows the position of speed dial on all settings except 1/1000. The hole is partially covered by the guard behind but at 1/1000 (right) you may easily access the screws

Jerzy,

Once again, thank you very much for a thorough and informative answer. They're just fascinating machines, aren't they? I suspect the chances of my doing damage if I try this are much greater than the small annoyance from the misalignment itself, so I'm going to leave it alone, I think.

Thanks again,

Ben

[rfaspen]

Wait.  Did you say you set speed first and then wind?

There's your problem.  Screwmount Leicas don't work that way.

Someone here will clarify, but you may be damaging the camera setting speed first. 

[Spunto the Rat Boy]

On 6/26/2021 at 5:53 PM, rfaspen said:

Wait.  Did you say you set speed first and then wind?

There's your problem.  Screwmount Leicas don't work that way.

Someone here will clarify, but you may be damaging the camera setting speed first. 

Thanks @rfaspen — this contradicts the advice I had from @TomB_tx in this thread, and my habitual practice. I can't remember whether or not I was told originally to it the way I do, or if it just seemed more logical to me, but now it occurs to me that I never actually had a valid reason.

I just checked the manual, and it does, indeed, support your point:

Quote

After winding shutter, lift main speed dial, turn it until the desired speed is opposite the arrow and allow the dial to drop into its catch

... although it's tucked away in the caption to an image. Well well well. This changes everything!

Thanks,
Ben

[Spunto the Rat Boy]

Just now, Spunto the Rat Boy said:

Thanks @rfaspen — this contradicts the advice I had from @TomB_tx in this thread, and my habitual practice...

Apologies, @TomB_tx, rereading your reply I realise you too were correct, and I've just been doing it wrong. Thank you all for your generous help!

[250swb]

Any quicker off the mark with the screwdriver and that could have been a disaster, but you won't have damaged the camera setting the shutter out of sequence.

[Spunto the Rat Boy]

Just now, 250swb said:

Any quicker off the mark with the screwdriver and that could have been a disaster, but you won't have damaged the camera setting the shutter out of sequence.

Indeed so! I might put a little sticker on the back to remind me, until it becomes second nature.

Thank you all very much for your help.

Cheers,
Ben

[DOM RAY]

On 6/23/2021 at 2:27 AM, jerzy said:

Ben,  there are screws there, they are just short and hidden. Instert small flat screwdriver (1-1,2mm) into the hole and you will find the screw. But often it is not speed dial but the part below (42 532 327) that is not firmly fixed and it misalignes. There are as well 3 screws, a bit bigger and you can acces them if speed dial is lifted. Set the speed dial to 1/1000 then you get there. Tighten them and then proceed with aligning the speed dial. Check as well is shutter works on 1/1000 when flash contacts are in 0 and 20 positions. If shutter does not run than 531 327 is misaligned and this is a bit more complicated. Of course, if you do not use flash and 1/1000 works fine at any position of contact numbers than you may leave it as it is

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Hi- reviving this old thread as I have a similar issue.   My issue however is not the top shutter dial, but the part below it 42 531 327 that keeps slipping.  I have tightened the 3 screws as much as I can however I note after a few shutter clicks it misaligns again- specifically the dial seems to slip clockwise (eg. settings with the bulb ends up showing as 1/1000s, after a few clicks).   Any other suggestions on how to fix?   Kind Rgds/

[jerzy]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb DOM RAY:

Any other suggestions on how to fix

not really. there is no possibility that this part may slip other than lose screws.  It possible however that the screws are worn, not sharp at the end. But try to do following: set speed dial in between B and 30 (it will stay higher than usual), remove speed dial with engravings. Now the screws fixing 532 327 are higher, you have better grip with the screwdriver. Fasten all 3 of them, move speed to B position, spann the shutter and try to rotate part ...237 with your fingers. If it does check the screws if sharp enough, replace if needed

[DOM RAY]

thank you Jerzy for sharing your experience and expertise.  I believe you are right- the screws don't look sharp anymore- they look very worn and out of shape from years of use.   I will look to try and find replacement screws.   Kind Rgds.

[guyfawkes2]

I'd suggest that before attempting to realign the speed dial set the shutter speed to the one you can really be sure of - this is B.  At the fastest speeds the difference in sound when the shutter fires may be barely discernable.  When realigning do make sure that the shutter is cocked.  The the procedure is to gently undo each screw just a little until you can just move the dial. Align B with the marker and re-tighten the screws.

This will work with nearly all the Leica lookalikes from Nicca, Leotax, etc.