Leica unveils the Leitz phone

[Harvard Kiwi]

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I know I'm late to this party but thought I'd chime in for anyone interested in this.

The phone is a re-skinned Sharp phone with the main input from Leica being the cosmetic design of the exterior of the device. It isn't a bad phone but it also isn't a great phone.

I don't believe Sharp will bother with the international market as they heavily focus on Japan for their mobile devices and were common and popular over the decade that I lived there. As such, if you want one, you will most likely need to find a way to purchase it from Softbank Japan or you may find one that someone has purchased and is selling online. I just checked and there are a few on eBay for ridiculous prices.

The phone runs on Google's Android mobile operating system so it isn't reliant on Leica updates or support. Some of the hardware like the processor is current but the single lens camera falls behind other iOS and Android devices. The lens cap is a nice gimmick at first but the protrusion would in my opinion be awkward in the front pocket of your trousers and I'd worry about it either getting scratched by another item or scratching another item beside it.

There are some additional applications pre-loaded on the phones but these are either available on app markets or decent equivalents are. I don't believe the lense itself is designed or manufactured by Leica but I could be wrong whereas I believe they had some input with Huawei (even of they didn't manufacture or design the glass themselves).

Personally, the Leitz Phone caught my eye initially and I was skeptical but interested. However, after doing some digging, I can easily walk away without it and my next device will be a Samsung or iPhone depending on what's on offer at the time (I use an S9+ and iPhone 11 Pro now).

Is it a real Leica? Well, that depends on who gets to decide that. As far as Leica are concerned, it's a phone worthy of bearing their name and logo, and ultimately they get to decide what is and isn't. Does it embody the Leica spirit and heritage? I'd say not.

I'm not against innovation and exploring other markets, but I do wish Leica would be a bit more discerning and involved in objects that bear their name. After their partnership with Panasonic and Huawei, and now this Leitz Phone with Sharp, I feel it's a bit of a cash grab as opposed to the company making a legitimate effort to enter other markets through their own innovation and design.

I don't mean to come across as a Leica snob as I use other systems and 2/3 of my lenses are CV. But Leica's logo borders on a holy symbol to me. It epitomises the company's heritage, innovation, superior quality, and dare I say it, exclusivity. 

This device is not a monstrosity, and as far as phones go, you could do a lot worse. But a part of me is sad in writing this because Leica to me doesn't just belong to the shareholders, it belongs to the its passionate users as well, particularly those of us that feel a close association with the cult, um I mean community. 😛

I won't look down on someone who gets one, in fact I would be very curious to see one in-person. But to me, it doesn't embody the true values of Leica.

If anyone takes the plunge and buys one, please let us know your thoughts. I for one will always keep an open mind.

[Simone_DF]

On 8/11/2021 at 5:53 AM, Harvard Kiwi said:

The phone runs on Google's Android mobile operating system so it isn't reliant on Leica updates or support.

This is not correct. Leica and Sharp have customized the vanilla Android release. To be able to install any update, the update has to be modified by Leica / Sharp.

This is also the main reason why third party Android phones don't get more than 1-2 years of software updates, for a third party hardware company point of view, it's a waste of resources, they sell the hardware and don't make any money from the software.

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[LocalHero1953]

My Huawei P10 is still working and taking excellent pictures (for a phone) after four years, and I've noticed no battery decline (it was always good). I have no idea when it last received an android update, and don't think I'm missing anything*.

I used to replace my phone every couple of years because they were getting thinner, faster and more capable. Since then they have got bigger, and more expensive but not significantly better (I've watched the various new phones bought by my offspring). In fact the challenge now would be finding one small enough: I like operating it, as a phone or internet device, one handed and slipping it into my trouser pocket without a case. 

 

* Just checked. It's on the Huawei version of Android Pie (v9), so a couple of versions behind the current one (v11). But it is still receiving updates (presumably for security, not features) - I've just updated (9.0.# to 9.1.#). So 1-2 years of updates? Not exactly true.

[Harvard Kiwi]

@LocalHero1953, I believe the issue highlighted by @Simone_DF was that this phone doesn't have a standard manufacturer's UI but has one developed by Leica, and as such, the usability of the phone in the future would be dependent on Leica providing updates. In terms of out of camera software, they don't have a great track record (like many other camera manufacturers).

Many (not all) Android phones have an additional UI over them made by the device's manufacturer, which is unnecessary bloat for some, but liked by others. Phones like Samsung, Huawei, and Sharp (in Japan) will continue to provide updates in addition to Google for stock UIs and the Android OS.

The Leitz Phone 1 is a reskinned Sharp Aquos R6 and runs on Android 11 as its OS. While it has a "Leica designed interface" my understanding is that it is a stock Android interface that has been tweaked by Sharp's engineers to reflect the design aspects as given to them by Leica. The stock UI has apparently been changed in appearance (theme) and is largely monochrome with desaturated icons. The camera app has pre-installed filters called "Leica Looks" which focus on black and white photography. None of these things are critical to the usability of the device and I wouldn't be surprised if someone hasn't developed a similar unofficial theme and has it for sale on some download site.

A couple of other apps have been installed like LFI but that's just another Android app. In short, other than the visual appearance of the UI, "the actual interface and experience of using the phone are reportedly quite similar to Android’s."

I don't believe Leica's influence on the UI is any more than an aesthetic monochrome theme of the stock Android UI used by Sharp in the Aquos R6. Either way, it's important to remember that this is the UI skin as opposed to the actual OS, a distinction that users of iPhone may not be familiar with.

I don't believe this phone will be dependent on Leica for updates as their input has been around cosmetic design. As long as future versions of Android allow for the use of that stock UI (they always have supported previous versions to my knowledge) and the theme fits (in terms of resolution) which shouldn't be an issue on a single device, there won't be an issue.

Some commenters on other articles I have read have claimed that the camera's sensor isn't really 1 inch. Well, that depends on how you measure it. 1 inch sensors, like TVs, are measured diagonally and not as the length of a side.

There are many reasons why this phone falls short of what we would like to see from Leica, but we need to be fair, balanced, and realistic in our criticism.

Let's be real, some will just hate on it because it isn't an Apple or Samsung product. Others will hate it because they don't have it or don't have access to it. Some of us are Leica purists and just don't like to see the brand diluted, even if the third-party product isn't objectively a bad one.

Leica have left the core hardware and software developments to Sharp and Google, two companies that know what they are doing. This isn't a case of Leica pouring in significant resources in an attempt at reinventing the wheel.

Anyone that is thinking of getting this phone probably doesn't have to worry about the UI or OS. I'd be more concerned around hardware support for the device outside of Japan, particularly when purchased through third parties, and where a warranty doesn't apply. Network compatibility may also be an issue in some cases with Japanese phones exported to other countries, where different frequencies are used and the hardware is incompatible. Sometimes network settings changes to get full functionality of the software can be a pain to adjust as well.

For me personally, I highly doubt I'd ever buy one but I would love to play with one and see what it is capable of.

[LocalHero1953]

4 minutes ago, Harvard Kiwi said:

this phone doesn't have a standard manufacturer's UI but has one developed by Leica, and as such, the usability of the phone in the future would be dependent on Leica providing updates

 

5 minutes ago, Harvard Kiwi said:

While it has a "Leica designed interface" my understanding is that it is a stock Android interface that has been tweaked by Sharp's engineers to reflect the design aspects as given to them by Leica.

 

5 minutes ago, Harvard Kiwi said:

I don't believe this phone will be dependent on Leica for updates as their input has been around cosmetic design

??????

So which is it? A skin developed by Leica, or by Sharp? Dependent on who for updates? I suspect I'll have to wait for firm details till someone here has had one in the hand.

FWIW I have no wish to get this phone unless it shows startling image qualities, but I have no problem with Leica selling them. I suspect they are learning quite a lot about smartphone design and user interfaces, and tiny optics, both from Huawei and Sharp, and if that feeds back to new products, that's all to the good. Even better if they can stay profitable (and so in business) with such deals.

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

My Huawei P10 is still working and taking excellent pictures (for a phone) after four years, and I've noticed no battery decline (it was always good). I have no idea when it last received an android update, and don't think I'm missing anything*.

I used to replace my phone every couple of years because they were getting thinner, faster and more capable. Since then they have got bigger, and more expensive but not significantly better (I've watched the various new phones bought by my offspring). In fact the challenge now would be finding one small enough: I like operating it, as a phone or internet device, one handed and slipping it into my trouser pocket without a case. 

 

* Just checked. It's on the Huawei version of Android Pie (v9), so a couple of versions behind the current one (v11). But it is still receiving updates (presumably for security, not features) - I've just updated (9.0.# to 9.1.#). So 1-2 years of updates? Not exactly true.

That actually confirms what I said.

You got your phone 4 years ago and got 2 years of Android major release support.

You're lucky you're still getting security updates, which will presumably stop the moment Google won't release them for their Android v9 

[Simone_DF]

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53 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Dependent on who for updates?

Both.

Sharp has to implement all Android changes into their custom version, while Leica has to supply new UI in case the UI changes (and it does in most - but not all - updates).

[Harvard Kiwi]

Hi@LocalHero1953, the first quote was from my opening paragraph and was stating what I believed to be the position/opinion of Simone_DF.

The second quote was what I personally believed to be the case.

I understand that Leica had some input only in how the phone's bodh would look, how the user interface would look, how the pre-installed photo filters would look, and which additional apps would be pre-installed.

Sharp manufactured the phone (with hardware from multiple suppliers) but they essentially built it all. They installed Google's Android Operating System which will continue to be supported, along with a stock user interface which will also continue to be supported by Google and Sharp. This should not require any input from Leica for updates so long as the aesthetics continue to meet Leica's brand guidelines regarding the appearance of its logos.

This phone will most likely be subject to the exact same upgrades as the Aquos R6 over time, and these will be put out primarily by Google with some perhaps by Sharp. I didn't see anything that suggests it will be dependent on Leica for continued functionality as all they have said is "we want it to look like this".

In regards to your P10, I wouldn't be concerned as you will continue to get updates. Just like I get with my Samsung S9+ and the Leitz Phone will most likely get after a few years.

Both iOS and Android don't allow all previous generations of devices to update to latest operating systems and they are capped when it is felt the device's hardware can no longer support the newest version. The good news is that not only newer versions of the newest OS are released and while we now have Android 11, there will still be some updates for Android 9. The older versions are not just abandoned, at least not for some time. So being on 9 will still mean you get updates and patches as required, but even if you didn't, it's still a good working phone that you appear to be happy with. It is a good phone and may it last you many more years.

From the specs and articles I have read, I don't see the Leitz Phone 1 being any different. It will be supported by Android for a long time, and Sharp will support it as part of their flagship Aquaos R lineup for years to come. Sure those Sharp updates will mostly be for the R6 but they will automatically apply to the Leitz as it is the same thing with just a different theme on the UI.

If we needed Google to create a separate update for each and every person that has a difcerent theme, wallpaper, or colour configuration on their phones we'd never get anywhere. It's similar to saying that Google can't update their stuff or my phone won't work properly until I have updated my theme, which has been on my phone for several years without any action required by me and which has been unaffected by either Samsung or Google updates. 

 

[LocalHero1953]

14 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

That actually confirms what I said.

You got your phone 4 years ago and got 2 years of Android major release support.

You're lucky you're still getting security updates, which will presumably stop the moment Google won't release them for their Android v9 

Yes (allowing you a conveniently added "major" to support your confirmation) - just like all modern digital devices. 

I'll leave you and Harvard Kiwi to argue it out about who can and will update the Leica phone - we'll find out one day.

Edited August 14, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[Simone_DF]

34 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Yes (allowing you a conveniently added "major" to support your confirmation) - just like all modern digital devices. 

Nope. Apple gives 5-6 years of software updates. Google 3 to 4. iOS 14.7, released two weeks ago, can be installed on a iPhone 6s, released in 2015. 
most third party give only 2. I don’t know about Samsung. 
updates to the Leitz phone has to be released by Sharp. I doubt Leica has the repository infrastructure to host and distribute a full fledged OS

[LocalHero1953]

1 minute ago, Simone_DF said:

Nope. Apple gives 5-6 years of software updates. Google 3 to 4. iOS 14.7, released two weeks ago, can be installed on a iPhone 6s, released in 2015. 
most third party give only 2. I don’t know about Samsung. 
updates to the Leitz phone has to be released by Sharp. I doubt Leica has the repository infrastructure to host and distribute a full fledged OS

Sorry - not interested in fighting these iOS-android wars.

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Sorry - not interested in fighting these iOS-android wars.

It's not a matter of iOS vs Android, both are very valid systems that offer pros and cons, it's a matter of buying a 1800$ smartphone which - at the very best - will receive 3 years of valid software updates vs any other product in the same category that offer more for less and, depending also on personal preferences, have better UI and better software integration.

You are paying for a red dot.

[LocalHero1953]

4 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

You are paying for a red dot.

 

17 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

FWIW I have no wish to get this phone unless it shows startling image qualities

Not me. Find someone else to tell.

[Harvard Kiwi]

Yeah, I agree with @LocalHero1953. I don't think any of us are considering purchasing this right now, and the main point of this is documenting our views to help any potential purchasers consider some factors they may not otherwise have done so.

There are differing views here which have already been stated and there's little point in this getting into more of a debate/argument, particularly because I see Simone_DF as a valuable part of this community.

Any potential buyer can look into what has already been stated, and if it's a concern they make their decision accordingly.

Leica would have known this would have been a divisive device, and indeed there are many things about it that I like and which I don't. I'd still like to play with one to see what it's like. 🙂