Is there any interest in a CL2 Monochrome?

[GFW2-SCUSA]

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I have toyed with getting an M10-Mono but it's very expensive and seems to be having some issues. I use an M-10, an SL2 and a CL with pleasure.  I don't want a Q Mono because I don't want a one lens camera. So I thought how wonderful it would be to have a CL Monochrome.  Cheaper than the M10M, able to use any lens I want, small, high quality - all the joys we love in the CL.  So I have two questions:

1. Am I the only one interested?

2. Is it possible to make a Monochrome CL sensor?

Thoughts are welcome!

George

[wda]

I would have thought it was highly unlikely. I guess you are in a small minority

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[jankap]

Why don't you convert your pictures into B/W in post? And buy for 2000$ AT&T shares.

[FrozenInTime]

@GFW2-SCUSA  I could see a lot of people getting excited with a monochrome APS-C sensor in the Ricoh GR with it's street following and price point ; the X100V less so and the CL even less interest.

[jaapv]

Not much point with the other Monochrom cameras but one never knows with Leica. I have no interest. 

[M.piras]

Used for some months a m10 monochrom and sincerely having better results converting m10 color picture shooted with physical b/w filter and some personal desaturation Steps (obviously starting from raw) same results with CL. Once understood the key , is very easy to do and do not require too much time, then you can still remove b/w filter and work with wonderful colors. But that’s my opinion now, sincerely would like to be astonished by a CL monochrom to change my idea!

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(Love colors of CL)

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by M.piras

[wda]

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For my limited mono needs, I convert in Lightroom or Silver Efex Pro.

[RickP]

Silver Efex Pro works great!  I certainly don't need  a special body just for B&W..  

Example below

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[nicci78]

Monochrom sensors are made for very high accutance. So high that your best lens will become the weakest point. 
And it is made for very clean high ISO.

You’ll lose both by just desaturating a colour sensor. 
That’s why Monochrom cameras have an interest. Just like B&W films still have one. Even though you can also convert colour film scans into B&W. 

[jaapv]

Sorry, Nicci. A lens-sensor system is not a weakest link situation, but an additive system. So both a better lens will give better results and a better sensor will give better results.

Roger Cicala (Lensrentals blog:

Quote

Lots of people think that will be ‘whichever is less of the camera and lens.’ For example, my camera can resolve 61 megapixels, but my lens can only resolve 30 megapixels, so all I can see is 30 megapixels.

That’s not how it works. How it does work is very simple math: System MTF = Camera MTF x Lens MTF. MTF maxes at 1.0 because 1.0 is perfect. So let’s say my camera MTF is 0.7, and my lens MTF is 0.7, then my system MTF is 0.49 (Lens MTF x Camera MTF). This is actually a pretty reasonable system.

Now, let’s say I get a much better camera with much higher resolution; the camera MTF is 0.9. The system MTF with the same lens also increases: 0.7 X 0.9 = 0.63. On the other hand, I could do the same thing if I bought a much better lens and kept it on the same camera. The camera basically never ‘out resolves the lens.’

 

[rob_w]

Given that Leica introduced the Q2M recently, I'm guessing that's their answer to your question.  All the user reviews on the Q section of this forum are very positive.

OTOH I posed a B&W photo in the CL photos section yesterday but it does not look very good.  I have to recognise I am not very good at creating B&W from colour originals.  Have to do some learning!

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, rob_w said:

Given that Leica introduced the Q2M recently, I'm guessing that's their answer to your question.  All the user reviews on the Q section of this forum are very positive.

OTOH I posed a B&W photo in the CL photos section yesterday but it does not look very good.  I have to recognise I am not very good at creating B&W from colour originals.  Have to do some learning!

I did a mild rework on your JPG. let me know what you think.

[kangaroo2012]

After my M9 sensor failed and was repaired free, I sold the camera and now have an M10.

Recently an M9 M came on the market with a new sensor and a good price.

I am loving it in spite of being a dedicated B&W worker with my own darkroom and cameras from 35mm to 4x5 film.

  It takes me back to my earliest days when I only used monochrome film.

Philip

[tom0511]

In theory it would be interesting. The good high ISO performance of b&w would be usefull for a dx sized sensor.

I would however believe that there are more customers in the M or Q group, whoch would pay the money for such a specialist camera.

Maybe CL users are more "practical" and not the type of person where technical IQ stays abouve all including size and price.

 Maybe Cl users who say: I am fine with dx sensor and I like th smaller site of CL, also might say "I am fine with b&w conversion" and like to have a camera which can do both, color and b&w. Even is the b&w is not 100% on the level of a monocrom camera at higher iso.

Just guessing..

[ramarren]

I think I'd rather buy a specialist camera like the Q2M than a general purpose camera like the CL for a dedicated monochrome sensor. I'm pretty happy with what I get from capturing raw files and rendering them to monochrome or color from the CL just as it is:

On A Walk As Dusk Arrives #1 - Santa Clara 2020
Leica CL + Summilux 35mm f/1.4 (M-mount ca 1972)
ISO 2000 @ f/4 @ 1/60

G

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Edited June 14, 2021 by ramarren

[Peter Wright]

Just last week, I traded my M246 mono (which was one of my most used cameras of all time) for a Q2M.  Most of my photography is in the 28-75mm zone and especially around 35mm, so the Q2M is a perfect fit for me.  I use my CL a general purpose camera, and yes, sometimes I convert to B&W from the files it produces, but I don’t think I would be in the market for a CL mono.  Perhaps we will see a CL2 with IBIS, better eye detect AF and other improvements, and I would certainly consider that.

[Einst_Stein]

Yes， you can have it now. Q2M.

[Harrydog]

Stupid question but is there any difference in selecting b/W in the camera’s menu or post production in computer? I know you can’t colour the image if the cl is on b/W.

[wda]

Assuming you are capturing in both DNG and JPEG, taking your question, setting B&W will allow you to see the image in monochrome. However, the DNG will capture the full sensor information, including colour. Generally it is better to convert colour into mono, than use a mono Jpeg file.

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Hallo,

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[Harrydog]

31 minutes ago, wda said:

Assuming you are capturing in both DNG and JPEG, taking your question, setting B&W will allow you to see the image in monochrome. However, the DNG will capture the full sensor information, including colour. Generally it is better to convert colour into mono, than use a mono Jpeg file.

Ah thanks. I assumed both DNG and JPEG would be monochrome. So in a Q2M the raw (if it makes one) will be b/w completely.