New EVF for m11

[hillavoider]

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 No ibis hey…. Bummer that 

 

sl2 with m lenses is so good because of ibis 

 

my ultimate camera is optical RF with ibis 

Edited June 14, 2021 by hillavoider

[Al Brown]

On 6/10/2021 at 6:01 PM, Gobert said:

I had never the need to buy and EVF.

 

On 6/10/2021 at 6:36 PM, SunsetCreeps said:

I don't see a point in paying what a modern digital Leica costs just to slap an EVF on it

You are both right UNTIL you need to work with Summilux 75/1.4...
My buddy is a National Geographic photographer, he uses two Mamiya 7II's, a Leica SL2, Leica S and a M10 with... wait for it... EVF!!! It virtually never leaves the M body...

Edited June 14, 2021 by Al Brown

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[mmradman]

11 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

 

You are both right UNTIL you need to work with Summilux 75/1.4...
My buddy is a National Geographic photographer, he uses two Mamiya 7II's, a Leica SL2, one Leica S and M10 with... wait for it... EVF!!! It is on his M all the time.

Summilux M 75mm is excellent example of a lens that require precise focusing for best result, like pretty much all lenses really. 

I would imagine for every one who claims he/she can focus Summilux 75mm  accurately with RF and at maximum aperture there are at least ten people who can't.  My focus success rate was patchy with M9 and slightly better with M240, helped with OVF magnifier, really improved with SL due to excellent EVF.  It is serious investment in cameras to get most out of a lens.  Even Leica* were saying Noctilux M 75 and Summilux M 90mm are best used with EVF cameras, like SL and SL2.

 

*Note - before anyone ask for a link it is all on Leica own website, if you don't believe me do your own homework. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by mmradman

[lct]

2 hours ago, mmradman said:

Summilux M 75mm is excellent example of a lens that require precise focusing for best result, like pretty much all lenses really. 

Aside from UWA lenses perhaps, although nailing focus is required on close-ups with them. Seems like many RF users don't need such accuracy but selling them 90/1.5 or 75/1.25 lenses on high-res rangefinders sounds curious to say the least.

[mmradman]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Aside from UWA lenses perhaps, although nailing focus is required on close-ups with them. Seems like many RF users don't need such accuracy but selling them 90/1.5 or 75/1.25 lenses on high-res rangefinders sounds curious to say the least.

If such fast lenses are used for bragging rights it is perfectly OK on RF camera*.  For meaningful photography good luck nailing the focus.

 

*Note, stated in post #23 only minority of RF users can successfully focus fast long lens at max/near max aperture.

[rramesh]

I always thought the Visoflex as an unnecessary ornament for the M10. This was until I bought a 020 to go with my M10-P. Having used it for several months, I think it is truly useful for the occasions I need accurate framing with wide angle lenses, and accurate focusing when using lens at wide apertures.

Yes, it could use with a better build quality, and yes, more megapixels.

I am sure this will be addressed in the 030? but for now the 020 is sufficient for me.

[gotium]

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On 6/10/2021 at 1:22 AM, klausi said:

Owning an SL2 with a couple of m lenses to go, I really want to go back to an m camera, preferably the m10-r. What holds me back is the expectations for a new EVF, and that it might not work with cameras from before the m11. Any clues to whether a new EVF is coming, and if it would work with 'older' m models?

Why the desire to go back to an M if you like the EVF? What's missing from just using the SL2?

[darylgo]

The M is my preferred camera.  And if every lens were perfectly calibrated I’d shoot with the rangefinder mostly. The reality is the rangefinders and lenses are almost always in need of calibration, with two month turn around times. Dead on focus the images sparkle, a slight mis-focus results in a good image, useable, but it lacks the sparkle.  The evf is extremely useful to me, I can shoot mis- calibrated bodies and lenses all day knowing the focus is exactly where I placed it.  There isn’t another camera I am aware that has two viewfinders, having this choice is unique and an advantage as conditions are not always ideal for one viewfinder type and every occasion.  The evf quality for me is not about color, highlights/shadows, noise, those are never seen in the image, rather the focus/compose is the real advantage. 
 

Regarding, ibis in an M body. I fail to see how a rangefinder would convey the added stability as a dslr  or an evf camera does.  It’s implementation would be unseen in the rangefinder, leading to 1-issues of composition tweaks to framing and 2- releasing the shutter as ibis is switching. 

[mmradman]

3 hours ago, darylgo said:

The M is my preferred camera.  And if every lens were perfectly calibrated I’d shoot with the rangefinder mostly. The reality is the rangefinders and lenses are almost always in need of calibration, with two month turn around times. Dead on focus the images sparkle, a slight mis-focus results in a good image, useable, but it lacks the sparkle.  The evf is extremely useful to me, I can shoot mis- calibrated bodies and lenses all day knowing the focus is exactly where I placed it.  There isn’t another camera I am aware that has two viewfinders, having this choice is unique and an advantage as conditions are not always ideal for one viewfinder type and every occasion.  The evf quality for me is not about color, highlights/shadows, noise, those are never seen in the image, rather the focus/compose is the real advantage. 
 

Regarding, ibis in an M body. I fail to see how a rangefinder would convey the added stability as a dslr  or an evf camera does.  It’s implementation would be unseen in the rangefinder, leading to 1-issues of composition tweaks to framing and 2- releasing the shutter as ibis is switching. 

Regarding IBIS, since getting Z7 in early 2019 I use it all the time except when camera is on tripod. I would not buy other new full frame camera regardless of type without IBIS. 

The IBIS is not noticeable in operation and it does not interfere with viewing through the EVF, you only know by the results of shake free sharp images. Of course moving subject require adequate shutter speed to freeze which is different matter.   There is no rationale for IBIS to be observed in Optical RF, the sensor movements are miniscule, probably no more than several pixels in X-Y-Z axii. 

Providing Leica can source sensor assembly with IBIS all naysayers would never look back, as they did with other digital improvements - excludes CCD sensor aficionados 😄.

[Jeff S]

4 hours ago, darylgo said:

There isn’t another camera I am aware that has two viewfinders, having this choice is unique and an advantage as conditions are not always ideal for one viewfinder type and every occasion.  

Various Fuji models with hybrid EVF/OVF viewing options.

Jeff

[SiggiGun]

Am 10.6.2021 um 15:29 schrieb Jeff S:

Leica Rumors said it will, but Peter has been wrong a lot, including SL2 release. If November is true M11 announcement, someone here will likely share inside scoop a bit before. Even then, only individual testing will reveal whether the camera/VF suits individual tastes, requirements and vision.  Some people love current solutions; some don’t.

Jeff

I guess this time he is not too wrong

[darylgo]

6 hours ago, mmradman said:

Regarding IBIS, since getting Z7 in early 2019 I use it all the time except when camera is on tripod. I would not buy other new full frame camera regardless of type without IBIS. 

 

The cameras I've tried have a stickiness to the image, when refining the composition it will hold the image and only allow recomposing with a larger movement.  I can see ibis usefulness as I age and can't hold a camera steady.  I am also not convinced it gives the best quality possible, sensor alignment is critical.  When I see the cinema guys shooting with it I'll absolutely embrace it, but like autofocus it has it's benefits but  so often it picks the wrong focus point and I have to override it.  

[darylgo]

5 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Various Fuji models with hybrid EVF/OVF viewing options.

Jeff

Jeff, not quite my intended meaning.   The M with an evf attached has two separate viewfinders,  two different places, the evf can be tilted 90 degrees gaining greater usefulness, and quite unique.   I am attempting to show some love for the poor misaligned reputation these viewfinders get on the forums 🙂  

[Jeff S]

7 minutes ago, darylgo said:

Jeff, not quite my intended meaning.   The M with an evf attached has two separate viewfinders,  two different places, the evf can be tilted 90 degrees gaining greater usefulness, and quite unique.   I am attempting to show some love for the poor misaligned reputation these viewfinders get on the forums 🙂  

Sure, but the Fuji models have two distinct viewing options … OVF or EVF… without carrying an accessory, and the rear screen tilts. But I get your intent, even though I only use my M bodies (since the 80’s) via RF.  The SL2 better meets my less preferred EVF requirements. Whatever suits.

Jeff

[lct]

2 minutes ago, darylgo said:

The cameras I've tried have a stickiness to the image, when refining the composition it will hold the image and only allow recomposing with a larger movement.

Not to contradict you but i've never seen such stickiness when using M lenses on my 5 years old A7r2 mod. IBIS is almost always on then, i simply don't think of it. I have steady hands though but IBIS allows shooting handheld when a tripod would be required otherwise.

[mmradman]

4 hours ago, darylgo said:

The cameras I've tried have a stickiness to the image, when refining the composition it will hold the image and only allow recomposing with a larger movement.  I can see ibis usefulness as I age and can't hold a camera steady.  I am also not convinced it gives the best quality possible, sensor alignment is critical.  When I see the cinema guys shooting with it I'll absolutely embrace it, but like autofocus it has it's benefits but  so often it picks the wrong focus point and I have to override it.  

I would hazard the guesss the Camera you tried is not the best for IBIS or EVF experience, would you care to share the model/type which provided impediment during the IBIS shooting. Only stickiness i can think of of would be sluggish EVF.

I am not making it up but with Z7 and it is almost three old model the IBIS is not noticable in the EVF.

[steveBK]

On 6/14/2021 at 6:25 AM, hillavoider said:

 No ibis hey…. Bummer that 

 

sl2 with m lenses is so good because of ibis 

 

my ultimate camera is optical RF with ibis 

I do wonder if this is actually possible.. IBIS shifts the focal plane, which closed-loop mirrorless AF (and MF) systems can deal with as they are focusing based on the actual focal plane 

RF focussing with a sensor equipped with IBIS may not be able to achieve critical focus because the focal plane moves..

[lct]

35 minutes ago, steveBK said:

I do wonder if this is actually possible.. IBIS shifts the focal plane, which closed-loop mirrorless AF (and MF) systems can deal with as they are focusing based on the actual focal plane 

RF focussing with a sensor equipped with IBIS may not be able to achieve critical focus because the focal plane moves..

The sensor moves after focusing in MF mode so the focusing device should do no difference be it an RF or an EVF. Just a guess though.

Edited June 15, 2021 by lct

[Photoworks]

14 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Sure, but the Fuji models have two distinct viewing options … OVF or EVF… without carrying an accessory, and the rear screen tilts. But I get your intent, even though I only use my M bodies (since the 80’s) via RF.  The SL2 better meets my less preferred EVF requirements. Whatever suits.

Jeff

yes and I have ever version of the fuji 100 and they are terrible in both. good that you can guess with AF but manual focus is just terrible

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[darylgo]

The viewfinder is the heart of the M, technologically it's a dinosaur, functionally it can be a dinosaur, I don't see how this can be combined with ibis.    The trend for the M bodies is less tech, not more.  Easily observed going back to the M240, a feature-rich body, and now with the M10 we have a grip without multi-functions, and a body without video.  The traditionalists are firmly in charge, I'd be very surprised if Leica adds anything more than improved mechanics and electronics.