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Losing a lot on my M10


Flyer

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Bought an M10 3 weeks ago and I have been struggling with the patch focusing, I am now getting better at zone focus and hyperfocal distance. However I have a bit of a knee jerk personality and decided to sell it. I know I could add the EVF but that just adds size and somewhat defects the purpose.

I guess if I am honest, I love the retro feel, looks and simplicity but at heart I am a bit of a techno geek!

Its pretty much brand new, but I struggled to sell it (in UK) for £4250 which I think is a fare price for whats essentially brand new and not yet registered so it has a 2 year warranty.

Looks like I am going to have to maybe bring it down to (other used prices) and older M10's to around £3800 to get some interest. Part of me is reluctant to lose £1000 in 3 weeks, so I am on the fence about persevering with it longer.

Anyone else been here and what did you do, bite the bullet?

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@Flyer    If you bought a new in box M10, it should be working correctly.  Sometimes a less than perfect M camera slips out of Wetzlar, but as you observe it has a 2 year warranty.  Take it back to your Leica dealer and have them check it for you.  If the rangefinder mechanism needs fine tuning, they can send it to Leica and have that done under warranty.

If the dealer says the rangefinder appears to be focusing properly, do not hesitate to ask them for a bit of help in learning to properly focus.  Any Leica dealer worth their salt will be happy to help.

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...I have a bit of a knee jerk personality and decided to sell it...

JMHO, but I suspect that this is where the issue is to be found.

Keep in mind one of the immutable laws of the Leica kingdom:  With regard to digital M cameras, you lose money only when you sell them.

Edited by Herr Barnack
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Or if you are using it with older lenses, it may be that the lenses need to be calibrated to digital standard. Send the whole system in, if you want to avoid the wait and don't mind investing a small amount of money, to a trusted repair shop.

Meanwhile, read the FAQ on how to focus a rangefinder camera; It takes some practice.

 

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2 hours ago, Flyer said:

but at heart I am a bit of a techno geek!

It is a shame when this happens, but 'techno geek' and Leica M are diametrically opposed - 'reduced to the essentials' should be the clue.

Afraid to say I don't think you can force it, and will have to take the hit and move on. If you have a SL (looking at your other posts) a trade against something SL maybe your best bet. Your dealer should be sympathetic. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Edited by pedaes
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Focusing easily with an M requires not only well calibrated body and lens(es), but good vision, corrected for astigmatism or other issues via glasses, diopter and/or contacts.  Any calibration issue can usually be determined by comparing the RF with live view, properly set up on a tripod.  The vision aspect often involves some trial and error to accommodate any personal comfort preferences or compromises.  Once all this is patiently sorted, the M can be a quick and responsive tool.  But not everyone bonds with the RF experience; I did immediately, although now aging eyes require some additional accommodation.

Jeff

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The M10 is £5750 at Red Dot and I would expect its nominal value would, albeit 'as new', be 85%. If sold on commission lose another 15% or so = only £4150. So your asking price seems about right. Trade-in always works less well than outright sale by retailer on your behalf. I guess Leicaphiles are nowadays more interested in the P, R, or monochrome variants. All depressing stuff – sorry!

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With all due sympathy to the OP, repeat after me......"The fair price is the same as the market price, which is what someone is willing to pay for it".
My nearest experience was buying the SL2 last September and trading it in for the SL2-S in December, with no cash changing hands: 25% loss in four months. But worth it AFAIC.

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5 hours ago, Flyer said:

Bought an M10 3 weeks ago and I have been struggling with the patch focusing, I am now getting better at zone focus and hyperfocal distance. However I have a bit of a knee jerk personality and decided to sell it. I know I could add the EVF but that just adds size and somewhat defects the purpose.

I guess if I am honest, I love the retro feel, looks and simplicity but at heart I am a bit of a techno geek!

Its pretty much brand new, but I struggled to sell it (in UK) for £4250 which I think is a fare price for whats essentially brand new and not yet registered so it has a 2 year warranty.

Looks like I am going to have to maybe bring it down to (other used prices) and older M10's to around £3800 to get some interest. Part of me is reluctant to lose £1000 in 3 weeks, so I am on the fence about persevering with it longer.

Anyone else been here and what did you do, bite the bullet?

What kind of subjects are you shooting and at what aperture? I find the RF focusing fantastic for most things apart from my rapidly approaching toddler once she gets into the <3m range! 

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It took me 12 months to get used to manual RF focussing and even now I reach for an AF camera at times for speed and ease of use.  I’ve found that constant practice helps to strengthen your focussing. I pick my M10-P up most days and play with the focussing. 
 

I also bought an EVF for mine which helps tremendously but does negate that RF experience - but it does get the job done. 
 

If the OP really wants to nail using the M10, the option is to put some time and effort into being consistent with focussing - or move it on and take the hit. 

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Should I be sympathetic to the OP, I don't know because he wrote in December 2020 that his GAS had to stop because he'd already lost thousands of pounds on equipment? It's probably worth reading between the lines on this one. 

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vor 16 Stunden schrieb Flyer:

Bought an M10 3 weeks ago and I have been struggling with the patch focusing, I am now getting better at zone focus and hyperfocal distance. However I have a bit of a knee jerk personality and decided to sell it. I know I could add the EVF but that just adds size and somewhat defects the purpose.

I guess if I am honest, I love the retro feel, looks and simplicity but at heart I am a bit of a techno geek!

Its pretty much brand new, but I struggled to sell it (in UK) for £4250 which I think is a fare price for whats essentially brand new and not yet registered so it has a 2 year warranty.

Looks like I am going to have to maybe bring it down to (other used prices) and older M10's to around £3800 to get some interest. Part of me is reluctant to lose £1000 in 3 weeks, so I am on the fence about persevering with it longer.

Anyone else been here and what did you do, bite the bullet?

I personally think, you are giving up too fast, however you also missed a comprehensive test upfront I think.

I'm using Leica R now for about 40 years, never owned a Leica M up to 2018. I own a few vintage rangefinder cameras, however none of them comes close to a Leica M.

Finally I decided 3 years ago to get comfortable with a Leica M (main incentive was the need of a fine digital camera at that point in time) and so I borrowed a digital M from a friend.
After a couple of days of intensive testing I decided that the RF works for me and that I have to get an M10 (now finally adding an MP analogue).
I use for focussing mostly the RF, the LV or EVF are basically used only for R lenses (with the adapter) or taking photos under very challenging light conditions.

Give yourself another couple of weeks of intensive testing.
If you still don't like it after that time, you will have to spend the time now you didn't spend at the beginning of this story for testing, now you'll have to spend it for waiting for someone who pays the price you ask.

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Financially you have taken the greatest hit. That money is gone and, as the camera is not in the territory of a collectors item, there is no prospect of any recovery of that value in the short term.

However, the depreciation from here should be a fair bit less. So I'd establish if you can get to enjoy using it before making a decision on disposal. But at this point it's about opportunity cost rather than historic cost - if you'd get more pleasure from something else, do so. The loss is there, the recognition of it merely a timing issue.

 

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Seriously - persevere for SIX MONTHS. Don't sell it now.

if in 6 months you haven't gelled, then move on.

You need to develop muscle memory and confidence in your eye. using an M is like playing an instrument. Practice.....

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On 6/7/2021 at 7:13 PM, LocalHero1953 said:

My nearest experience was buying the SL2 last September and trading it in for the SL2-S in December, with no cash changing hands: 25% loss in four months. But worth it AFAIC.

Not entirely dissimilar for me. I normally hang onto cameras for ages and pretty much overly test their image quality before committing to buying a new one - but this time round, I had a new SL2 from March 2020, and we departed ways around a year later for a Fuji GFX100S. And I’d never even handled the Fuji before it arrived on the doorstep!

But (as I expected ...perhaps I should say “hoped for”) the 100mp medium format sensor finally gave me what I wanted in terms of digital image quality, and so fully worth it for me, personally, in this instance.

Whilst I’ve now found the digital image quality that I really like via medium format, the SL2 ownership also taught me (after being an M shooter ....M4-P, M7, M240 for 2 decades) just how much I value Ms for being remarkably compact and with a pretty unique handling.

Edited by Jon Warwick
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