Zero9 Posted May 31, 2021 Share #1 Posted May 31, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) I started with Leica m9 and fell in love with the manual focus, small and discrete of a Leica range finder. However, I have a poor eye sight and always wear glasses. Tried diopter but not really a solution. Then I got the m10 along with the evf. Although the evf doesn’t give the same rangefinder experience, I find it easier to focus with evf and magnifying than ovf, especially when shooting at low light or complex subject. In terms of lenses, I have the following: 35mm sim micron 7 elements noctilux 50 1.0 v3 summilux 50 1.4 asph summicron 90 2 apo asph With my poor eyesight, the only lens I’m comfortable with while using the ovf is the 50 1.4asph. I cannot fully see the 35mm frame line, and the 90mm is like a sniper scope. Recently a friend asked me if I want to switch my m10 with his sl2s in addition with some cash. I’m not considering any sl lenses in the near future, so probably just using a adapter along with my m lenses. however, I’m not really sure if the better electronic system and better evf will justify the additional weight and bulky body of a sl? any kind of input is appreciated! thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 31, 2021 Posted May 31, 2021 Hi Zero9, Take a look here As a near sighted, should I consider trading m10 to a sl2s?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted May 31, 2021 Share #2 Posted May 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, Zero9 said: however, I’m not really sure if the better electronic system and better evf will justify the additional weight and bulky body of a sl? I don't think that you would be happy. The SL2S is a completely different experience. I think that your solution, using the OVF in less critical situations and the EVF when needed is an optimal one. The SL2S may have the better EVF but the Visoflex is not bad at all and adequate for the purpose. You don't really need pretty pictures in your viewfinder, you need them on your prints. Whether the electronics of the SL2S are "better" is debatable - that judgement is mainly based on the additional AF and Video capability. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted May 31, 2021 Share #3 Posted May 31, 2021 @Zero9, I am also near sighted and wear glasses (progressive lens bifocals). I have been photographing with M cameras since 2003 and have learned to live with glasses when making images with my rangefinder M cameras. In my case, glasses are an inconvenience but nowhere near enough of one to get me to forsake my M cameras. When I'm shooting, I have to wear my glasses to focus accurately. I have learned to just press my glasses against the eyepiece of my camera to get my eye as close as possible to the eyepiece. Thanks to the plastic eyepiece ring that Leica uses on M cameras, I have never had my glasses lens scratched or damaged, nor have my glasses damaged or scratched any of my cameras over the years, other than the fact that my Q2 has a small dull spot on the eyepiece window. I cannot even see it when shooting; I have decided to continue using my Q2 with my glasses and replace the eyepiece if the dull spot becomes a problem. The biggest annoyance to me is when I am shooting with my M-P 240 in vertical orientation, sometimes my eyeglass frame will activate the live view button. I have to hold my camera at a slight angle when shooting vertical to avoid this but it is merely a petty annoyance. I would urge you to not trade off your M camera and lenses on a spur of the moment decision, but to stick with them and learn how to work around the issue of shooting when wearing glasses; it's all about technique and how you hold your camera, as well as learning how to press your glasses lens against the camera's eyepiece ring in order to get a good view for composing. Hope this will be of some use... 6 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted May 31, 2021 Share #4 Posted May 31, 2021 It is rumored that a new and improved Visoflex will be launched in November … 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiggiGun Posted May 31, 2021 Share #5 Posted May 31, 2021 vor 1 Stunde schrieb evikne: It is rumored that a new and improved Visoflex will be launched in November … YES, this is correct. But I don't remember me if the new Visoflex is backward compatible with the M10 or if he is design for M11. Furthermore, the launch is rumored, as you mentionned, for November 11th, but the product will probably not be in the Stores before Februaray 2022,... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolan Posted May 31, 2021 Share #6 Posted May 31, 2021 Without new batteries with improved battery life the new Visoflex will be useless Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero9 Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share #7 Posted May 31, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 6 hours ago, jaapv said: I don't think that you would be happy. The SL2S is a completely different experience. I think that your solution, using the OVF in less critical situations and the EVF when needed is an optimal one. The SL2S may have the better EVF but the Visoflex is not bad at all and adequate for the purpose. You don't really need pretty pictures in your viewfinder, you need them on your prints. Whether the electronics of the SL2S are "better" is debatable - that judgement is mainly based on the additional AF and Video capability. Thanks! I was hoping that a better ‘evf’ on the sl2s can help me to focus faster and more precise. I agree practice and muscle memory is required to improve the speed and hit rate, either using an ovf or evf. Just not sure how much of a difference a higher resolution evf will make in terms of assistance. You also brought up a good point; if sl only improved on af and video capabilities, then does it mean the shooting experience is the same as other cameras like canon, Nikon or Sony Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero9 Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share #8 Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, evikne said: It is rumored that a new and improved Visoflex will be launched in November … Fingers crossed! My main concerns are: 1. whether it will support m10…the perspective correction upgrade only support m10p, r, mono 2.whether m10’s processing power can handle higher resolution Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 31, 2021 Share #9 Posted May 31, 2021 33 minutes ago, Zero9 said: I agree practice and muscle memory is required to improve the speed and hit rate, either using an ovf or evf. Just not sure how much of a difference a higher resolution evf will make in terms of assistance. Very little. I managed to for the Digilux2 and EVF2 on the M240, despite grotty IQ and slow speed. Miles behind the Visoflex on the M10. But I agree that the CL and SL offerings are better in terms of image quality and refresh speed, no doubt, but better in terms of functionality? The only functionality that will be improved is the visualization of the OOF areas and DOF, but there is focus peaking to help in that respect and you wouldn't see it in the OVF anyway. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted May 31, 2021 Share #10 Posted May 31, 2021 I’ve used Leica M rangefinders for over 50 years, always wearing glasses full-time as I also am very nearsighted. I could always focus faster and more accurately with the RF than with an SLR with lenses under 90 mm. It is more a matter of learned technique. I do appreciate using an EVF with long lenses, but otherwise find the M10 RF to be the best focus system for general use. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ2 Posted May 31, 2021 Share #11 Posted May 31, 2021 (edited) Thankfully I am able to do everything I need/want wearing my glasses with the M10. I do want to be able to see clearly before, during and after I raise the RF to my eye 😉 But, eyesight corrections can be more than complicated and one size does not fit all. ** There are benefits to wearing glasses while using our cameras to include keeping the OVF clean from eyelash smudge. I wear my glasses when using the Sony EVF for the same reasons I do with the M10--to be able to see clearly before, during and after. With that said, before you trade your M10 for the larger SL which doesn't seen like what you really want based upon what your wrote, why don't you consider some of the other smaller mirrorless cameras too. I shoot mirrorless alongside my M10. Your 50 Lux and 90 Cron will perform nicely adapted to other mirrorless cameras. My 50 F0,95 works very well on mirrorless, but I am not sure about your 50 1.0 v3 ( was it designed for digital?) As other have posted, the rumored next generation, hopefully much better IQ Visoflex may go a long way to solving more advanced eye sight issues. To me the current Visoflex 020 is already very effective, but I prefer RF/ZF and wearing my glasses. Good luck on your choice. The most important of course is to make sure you can keep-on shooting! Even if there are some compromises here and there. Edited May 31, 2021 by LBJ2 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 17, 2021 Share #12 Posted June 17, 2021 On 5/31/2021 at 9:33 AM, wolan said: Without new batteries with improved battery life the new Visoflex will be useless And more processing power. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFW2-SCUSA Posted June 26, 2021 Share #13 Posted June 26, 2021 Might I suggest that you rent a SL2 and adaptor and try it for yourself. It might be money well spent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted July 1, 2021 Share #14 Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) As a farsighted person, I would say 'Don't'! Edited July 1, 2021 by rramesh Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntobias Posted July 7, 2021 Share #15 Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) I'm -4 in my shooting eye...I wear varifocals which can be a right pain....for my MP, I use my glasses and for above 50mm, a leica 1.25x magnifier...helps nail focus on the summi 90 and elmar 135 , on the M10 the viewfinder is bigger so no problems with my glasses , I do use the visoflex and focus peaking if shooting wide open , even on my 50mm.....as for the SL2.....can do either, just wear glasses...actually ok, or dial in the diopter. simples. BTW I have a -3 diopter which I occasionally used before my prescription worsened...not a good experience as i was forver lifting my specs with the camera top and eventually they fell off a few times....hence my diopter is on ebay (and has been for ages !...NO TAKERS! ) focus peaking is the grail for MF lenses if you are one step off a guide dog like me, otherwise AF is pretty good and my nikon stuff does that....saving for a 24-90 now ! rambling post...sorry! ps...the very wides have such a depth of field...eg the tri-elmar and 24mm that focus is pretty much irrelevent ! and if you like film, get a nikon F5 with DA-30 sports finder...its a brute but can see all the frame with both eyes at the same time !!! Edited July 7, 2021 by johntobias added info Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OR120 Posted July 10, 2021 Share #16 Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) Ask your friend if you may use his SL2-S for a couple of days ------- to see if it's the right camera for you. Then you will know. I've been a Leica rangefinder guy since the 70's. As the years passed my eyesight just was not keeping up -- trying to use the wonderful rangefinder system. I ended up getting an EVF but the joy and simplicity of the rangefinder experience was gone. That small Leica M body was now bulky (w/EVF) and much slower to use. I like Summilux lenses so it was getting slower and harder to get the photos I wanted. When I bailed out of the M body and moved to the SL2-S it was a whole new BRIGHT, SHARP and CLEAR world. I'm only using my SL2-S with M and R lenses (also a few old Nikon, Zeiss and Voigt lenses) and I love it. Wish I had done it sooner. Ask you friend for a couple of days - see if it's for you. Good Luck. Edited July 10, 2021 by OR120 sp Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtai Posted July 12, 2021 Share #17 Posted July 12, 2021 I briefly owned an SL2 with the M/L adapter but ultimately sold it for the M10M. While I was happy with the SL2 my preferred medium is b/w. But anyway I recommend it in your position as I have the same problem and probably worse. Let me give you an example: I had to attach a -2 diopter plus the 1.25x magnifier onto the .85x M7 in order to focus the F1 Noctilux and F1.4 Summilux accurately. But on the SL2 I could focus them with none of the focusing aid. Peaking and magnification made it easier but the EVF was so good I didn’t need it. I would buy an SL-M immediately. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvard Kiwi Posted August 19, 2021 Share #18 Posted August 19, 2021 Lots of good advice on here. While I appreciate the qualities of the SL2, to me personally, it is moving back towards other DSLRs and new mirrorless systems. I love the manual feel of the M range along with the size and I suspect from OP's post that they feel the same way. I occasionally puck up one of my other systems and enjoy the relative simplicity but after a little while (10-30mins) I miss the ritual and process of my M. I too am short sighted and have adjusted to the RF window for the most part while wearing my glasses. I use my Visoflex 020 for my 90 and 21 lenses but I miss the optical viewfinder. I just bought an optical VF for my 21mm to partially rectify this. The battery life when using the 020 drops significantly. Hopefully the new Visoflex will be a significant improvement in terms of size, resolution, and battery drain (I always wonder how much the built in GPS function of the 020 adds to the drain). Try the SL2 for a few days and see how you feel. I believe you will miss your M and that there's a good reason why your friend is wanting to make the switch. That being said, all love to SL2 shooters who prefer that system. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helge Posted August 19, 2021 Share #19 Posted August 19, 2021 Screens are usually among the highest energy consumers, this is valid for cameras but also notebooks, smartphones and tablets. However newer technologies fight always against the battery drain. Unfortunately any increase in resolution is adding more drain, so it might be almost a wash at the end if all your wishes come true 😎 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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