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CL or TL2: which do you recommend?


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On 5/29/2021 at 9:33 PM, kengai said:

Looking for a quality camera, not too bulky and with quality lenses, to use as a second body for travel photography to pair with the M10, which one do you recommend?

Nothing. You don't need a second body unless you are doing commercial work.

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7 hours ago, maitoparta said:

Nothing. You don't need a second body unless you are doing commercial work.

I have been using a second body and regularly a third one for travel since 1988. People pay thousands ot tens of thousands in some cases to travel, take camera gear worth a small car and then take the risk that the essential part breaks down in the middle of nowhere with the nearest camera shop days away? Not the most brilliant idea in my book.
I have had times of going into the bush with three R cameras and emerging some weeks later with one working...
And why commercial work? It is not always about money. Photographs can be irreplaceable for amateurs just as well.

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Also, a smaller compact can be useful when the M10 is a bit bulky to take everywhere. Which is why you probably don't need a separate system of lenses and an all-in-one camera might be handy. D-Lux cameras are handy.  Leica D-Lux 7 or Panasonic LX100 version perhaps  I also tried the X Vario but it's as bulky or bulkier and slow! Or a small X2 if you don't mind the older tech? Otherwise CL might indeed  be the best fit, perhaps with a pancake lens.

I am not a fan of WA fixed lens cameras for portraits, be it a Q or iPhone, even with blur -- features have noticeable distortion and a longer lens is always better, in my experience anyway.

 

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I use a TL with the Pancake 18 and Zeiss optical viewfinder as my small system. The TL even has a very good built-in flash. And they are cheap. I picked this one up for 500 Euro like new.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, jaapv said:

I have been using a second body and regularly a third one for travel since 1988. People pay thousands ot tens of thousands in some cases to travel, take camera gear worth a small car and then take the risk that the essential part breaks down in the middle of nowhere with the nearest camera shop days away? Not the most brilliant idea in my book.
I have had times of going into the bush with three R cameras and emerging some weeks later with one working...
And why commercial work? It is not always about money. Photographs can be irreplaceable for amateurs just as well.

How many times your camera has broken during your travels? I mean I totally get that photos can be important even if you are not responsible to deliver anything to third party, but cameras are also quite reliable, and everyone have mobile phone camera these days, it can be used as a backup in emergencies, I have used mine in commercial work when ran out of batteries in my camera once.

Edited by maitoparta
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I just came off six years of being on the road, the pandemic finally put a halt to it. I can tell you from my experience I would never travel with one body. It's not just a matter of a body failing there's human error too, like when I dropped a body with lens on a cement tiled floor of a cafe in Donegal, Ireland in 2017. I was shooting Nikon at the time, there were no authorized repair centers in Ireland at that time, combo would need to be sent to the UK. As always I had a second boy and could continue as I was about to head to Spain for the next four months. I't's a different story when you use your gear daily compared to someone who pulls out the camera once a week or dare I say once a month. My humble opinion of course. 

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22 hours ago, maitoparta said:

How many times your camera has broken during your travels? I mean I totally get that photos can be important even if you are not responsible to deliver anything to third party, but cameras are also quite reliable, and everyone have mobile phone camera these days, it can be used as a backup in emergencies, I have used mine in commercial work when ran out of batteries in my camera once.

My R cameras had to be serviced after each trip. The last time I took a single camera was back in 1988 when a city bus ran over my M4 in Pretoria. It was still more or less usable, but did not focus properly any more. It happened once that I left a charger in camp, it took a week to catch up with me, and I could use my Sony in between. Since then I carry a spare charger ;) Try taking 600 mm  bird shots with a phone... A Canon 300 mm once broke its OIS. i had a 2x converter and 135... I fell off a cliff carrying an M8 - my cuts and bruises healed well enough, but the camera was dead and fortunately I had a second one. Sensor failure on an M240 in Malawi. My Nex had to do the rest of the trip (and failed on the next one... :( )

So the answer is: Not too often, but often enough to not jeopardize the photographic side of expensive travel.

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13 hours ago, jaapv said:

My R cameras had to be serviced after each trip. The last time I took a single camera was back in 1988 when a city bus ran over my M4 in Pretoria. It was still more or less usable, but did not focus properly any more. It happened once that I left a charger in camp, it took a week to catch up with me, and I could use my Sony in between. Since then I carry a spare charger ;) Try taking 600 mm  bird shots with a phone... A Canon 300 mm once broke its OIS. i had a 2x converter and 135... I fell off a cliff carrying an M8 - my cuts and bruises healed well enough, but the camera was dead and fortunately I had a second one. Sensor failure on an M240 in Malawi. My Nex had to do the rest of the trip (and failed on the next one... :( )

So the answer is: Not too often, but often enough to not jeopardize the photographic side of expensive travel.

 

Well sounds like you really need backup cameras.

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Posted (edited)

I would say that, from my perspective, the most useful backup to an M10 would be a very compact fixed lens camera like the X100V or Ricoh GRIII. The M does great when you have the ability and patience to carry a fairly heavy camera and lens combo like the M10 is with most lenses. But I find that when traveling there are also often times when you are walking extensively or in places that are not conducive to carrying around a full camera kit. In those cases, something as extremely portable as the GRIII or the X100V is a better fit. The GRIII especially will fit in a pocket and is so light as not to add any burden to your baggage but still takes excellent, sharp 24mp images. The X100V is a bit more substantial, but it adds a very good VF/EVF system and a flash, both of which can be useful when trying to replace a camera in a travel context. I think the T/CL cameras are a bit closer to the M series in how they might be used, so their utility is a bit more limited, in that they kind of fulfill the same mission.

Edited by Stuart Richardson
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If you’re going to look at a X100V you might as well look at a used TL2/CL + TL23mm, with the added flexibility that you can add other lenses if you need to, including your existing M lenses.

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