Why do lightsources duplicate at night with M10M?

[hey_giulio]

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Hi everyone,

what do you think caused the moon “duplication effect” in the two pictures below? I couldn’t believe my eyes...

Thanks!

 

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[a.noctilux]

Which lens ?

Filter ?

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[hey_giulio]

50 apo + uv filter

[a.noctilux]

That it !

try without filter, you would see ...

[hey_giulio]

Ok thanks!

So basically this is produced when there is a point light source in an otherwise dark situation?

[Jeff S]

Additional glass element increases tendency to flare with night light sources. 
 

Jeff

[jaapv]

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13 hours ago, hey_giulio said:

Ok thanks!

So basically this is produced when there is a point light source in an otherwise dark situation?

It is a reflection of the moon on the filter glass coming from the front element. You can see the mirror effect; it has flipped 180º.

If you use a dedicated protective filter there is less chance of this effect but it can still happen.

[hey_giulio]

Thanks Jaapv! What is a dedicated protection filter? 

[Jeff S]

Clear filter to protect front element, not UV, but from reputable company using high quality glass and coatings, like B+W.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/636451-REG/B_W_66098758_39mm_Natural_Clear_007.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/905843-REG/b_w_661073868_39mm_xs_pro_nano_mc_clear_007.html

But at night, with bright light sources, I wouldn't use any filter....still more glass.

Jeff

Edited May 23, 2021 by Jeff S

[hey_giulio]

Thanks Jeff S

I was using a Leica Filter UVa II 

Is the UV part that produces the reflection and it would not be there with a clear filter?

[Jeff S]

52 minutes ago, hey_giulio said:

Is the UV part that produces the reflection and it would not be there with a clear filter?

Any additional glass surface can increase chance of reflections/flare, but as Jaap noted, a clear filter ‘might’ be less prone than UV.
 

Jeff

Edited May 23, 2021 by Jeff S

[mmradman]

3 hours ago, hey_giulio said:

Thanks Jeff S

I was using a Leica Filter UVa II 

Is the UV part that produces the reflection and it would not be there with a clear filter?

If you read manual that came with the lens Leica does not advise use of filter unless there is risk that can affect surface of the front element, for instance sea spray. Leica does not make/sell branded Protective filters so UV is nearest alternative.

[capo di tutti capi]

 

If you bring the lighter to the window. You will see many reflections of the fire. Depends on the number of glasses in the window. It's the same with the filter. If it's dirty.

Better to use a filter. The filter does not spoil the quality of photos so much. The image will be worse if there is fat directly on the lens. Greasy stains are very difficult to remove. The Lenspen will coat the entire lens surface with a thin layer of grease. If you take a picture of a street lamp. Right in the center of the frame. You will see flares like during a solar storm. Test your lenses without filters. Take a smartphone <flashlight and shine on the lens in the dark. At an angle of 10 degrees. See fat.

Lenspen is best used once. The grain of sand can scratch the lens.

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by capo di tutti capi

[jaapv]

6 hours ago, hey_giulio said:

Thanks Jeff S

I was using a Leica Filter UVa II 

Is the UV part that produces the reflection and it would not be there with a clear filter?

No, not really The moon does not produce much UV light.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1974Moon....9..295C

[jaapv]

6 hours ago, hey_giulio said:

Thanks Jaapv! What is a dedicated protection filter? 

B+W 007, Heliopan Protective Nano, etc.

[hey_giulio]

Thanks everybody for such detailed and useful replies.

 

[jaapv]

.

 

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[Jeff S]

24 minutes ago, jaapv said:

.

 

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Linked post 9

Jeff

[jaapv]

Firstly, for normal use you do not really need a filter at all, the lens coating is quite scratch-resistant, but with a lens at this price point I can well understand caution. However, if you are using optimal photographic technique, shooting without filter will squeeze out the last possible smidgen of image quality. For most users the difference will not be perceptible (unless you get flare and reflections, of course ) If using a filter, best is a clear, nano-coated filter, or a high-grade UV could be used, but only to put an extra piece of glass in front of your lens. Leica filters (which are not made by Leica, only branded) are good, but not industry standard. B+W and Heliopan are reliably top quality.

There is absolutely no need for an UV filter below 4000 meter altitude, your lens itself is filtered against UV to a large extent, and you are using a Monochrome camera. In  extreme situations where you would use a UV filter against blue haze for colour photography, a middle-yellow or orange filter will be far more effective - which, in summary, means that you will never need an UV filter on your combo.
In general, in bright conditions yellow/orange/(red) filters will give a pleasing tonal balance. My standard outdoor filter on my M9M is orange.

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[tgray]

On 5/23/2021 at 6:14 PM, jaapv said:

No, not really The moon does not produce much UV light.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1974Moon....9..295C

Agreed with the filter causing the reflection, but not sure how relevant that paper is to terrestrial photography - the wavelengths discussed in it are mostly or completely blocked by the atmosphere anyway, even from the sun.