Shocking finding, Filter UV/IR for Leica Super-Elmar-M 18mm f3.8 ASPH

[tobbj]

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I found out Leica making a dedicated UV filter for its Leica Super-Elmar-M 18mm f3.8 ASPH.

I am using Leica M10. I've heard the IR part hasn't affect much when used with M10. So I bought this filter.

To my shocking, this UV filter causing an extremely big vignetting. It is not even can be called vignetting. It is like a big black circle. It is impossible to be fixed by anything.

I am so confused. Why would Leica produce something like this? For what purpose? It is shocking...

[adan]

It was originally designed for using the 18mm on the M8 camera (2006) - which has a smaller sensor, and thus only captured the field of a 24mm lens. The vignetting was cropped off in that case.

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[Guest]

Better to test before buying or at least read up whether the combination of certain parts makes sense at all, even if they happen to be screwed together.
According to my optical understanding, outside of experimental photography, no filter should ever be screwed in front of an extremely wide-angle lens of 18mm.
Just like the Leica M8, its special UV/IR-cut filters - built just for this camera - are long gone history.

[tobbj]

35 minutes ago, adan said:

It was originally designed for using the 18mm on the M8 camera (2006) - which has a smaller sensor, and thus only captured the field of a 24mm lens. The vignetting was cropped off in that case.

 

10 minutes ago, mnutzer said:

Better to test before buying or at least read up whether the combination of certain parts makes sense at all, even if they happen to be screwed together.
According to my optical understanding, outside of experimental photography, no filter should ever be screwed in front of an extremely wide-angle lens of 18mm.
Just like the Leica M8, its special UV/IR-cut filters - built just for this camera - are long gone history.

Thanks for the replies. Leica should make that clearly in the product's info media.

Anyway, lesson learnt. 

No damage/harm's done, as the eBay seller has 30 days return policy. Thanks.

==

On the other hand, anyone with this lens, got a better filter ideas than the very very ugly 77mm adapter for that lens? On top of the ugliness, there are two back opening on it. So if you are using the filter to protect the opticals from the dust, you cannot. Although I know those opening are for your to see the rotating of the CPL and better viewfinding. But we can do all that in Live view.

Edited May 18, 2021 by tobbj

[pop]

vor einer Stunde schrieb tobbj:

But we can do all that in Live view.

No live view on the M8, though.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, tobbj said:

 

Thanks for the replies. Leica should make that clearly in the product's info media.

Anyway, lesson learnt. 

No damage/harm's done, as the eBay seller has 30 days return policy. Thanks.

==

On the other hand, anyone with this lens, got a better filter ideas than the very very ugly 77mm adapter for that lens? On top of the ugliness, there are two back opening on it. So if you are using the filter to protect the opticals from the dust, you cannot. Although I know those opening are for your to see the rotating of the CPL and better viewfinding. But we can do all that in Live view.

Step-up ring. For an UV filter, although the lens will look weird and there will be some image deterioration towards the edges and corners...
If you are planning to use a polarizing filter on an 18 mm, forget it. The  effect varies with the angle of incidence, so the effect will vary from nil to full from one side of the image to the other.

[andybarton]

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1 hour ago, tobbj said:

Thanks for the replies. Leica should make that clearly in the product's info media.

To be fair, I don't think that Leica have made this filter for years.

[ianman]

3 hours ago, tobbj said:

I am using Leica M10.

 

1 hour ago, pop said:

No live view on the M8, though.

🤔

[adan]

10 hours ago, tobbj said:

Thanks for the replies. Leica should make that clearly in the product's info media.

This is what LEICA says:

This Leica UV/IR filter in black is specifically recommended for the Leica Digital M8 camera.

https://leicastoremiami.com/products/leica-uv-ir-filter-for-18mm-f3-8-asph?variant=345686343

If you'd bought the filter from Leica, you would have known.

If you bought the filter from ebay - that's not Leica's problem.

 

[tobbj]

11 hours ago, adan said:

This is what LEICA says:

This Leica UV/IR filter in black is specifically recommended for the Leica Digital M8 camera.

"Specifically recommended for M8" is still not the same as "... specifically for M8, causing serious vignetting for other models.. "

Anyway, this post is not meant to be a complaint (cos of the 30 days money back return policy). I searched the internet intensively before I bought it, I couldn't find some warning on this. So hoping this post can be of some help.

 

As my first reply shows, I am also more interested to ask some idea of front part vignetting and dust free filter solution for this lens, if any.

Edited May 19, 2021 by tobbj

[rramesh]

With wide lenses like the Leica 18mm f/3.8, it would be necessary to place larger filters to avoid vignetting. That's why for this lens, Leica sells a specific filter holder with cutouts for the viewfinder. Hard to find one though.

https://leicastoremiami.com/products/leica-filter-holder-for-18mm-f-3-8-asph?variant=345676573

[tobbj]

23 minutes ago, rramesh said:

With wide lenses like the Leica 18mm f/3.8, it would be necessary to place larger filters to avoid vignetting. That's why for this lens, Leica sells a specific filter holder with cutouts for the viewfinder. Hard to find one though.

https://leicastoremiami.com/products/leica-filter-holder-for-18mm-f-3-8-asph?variant=345676573

Hard to get, and has the cut outs. I bought that UV/IR filter, because it doesn't have the cutouts. I like the idea the front optical is air/dust tight. (Don't mind a bit quality loss).

Maybe that can be simulated with some step up ring. Maybe the front part a bit wider than that UV/IR, or just less depth. I found the filter part is still quite far from the font glass, it can have lesser depth. The depth is a big contribution to the vignetting. 

The ring at the base will have to be a female to female ring tough. Or female to female step up ring.

This can only be done by a Leica 18mm owner and also a dealer who has a lot of step up rings...

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Edited May 19, 2021 by tobbj

[250swb]

It all seems like a lot of fuss over a bit of dust. 

[tobbj]

46 minutes ago, 250swb said:

It all seems like a lot of fuss over a bit of dust. 

Only asking around, because it is possible, and someone might be doing it...

For lens that is impossible like this, I'm not fussing. (Although, it seems, someone says they have some snag on solution for that lens.)

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[adan]

Actually, I managed to filter that lens (again, only for M8 cropping) - by using a 39mm Leica UV/IR filter, "fattened up" a bit with several thin slices of black photographer's tape wrapped around the outside of the rim, and then press-fitted into the built-in lens hood.

Since it is a LTM mount, I got a pre-milled LTM-M adapter with 6-bit pits from a former member here who had access to a machine shop and sold them for $125 each. And coded it as a 16-18-21.

And since I am a dedicated "20/21mm" shooter (and like compact lenses), that combo "made" the M8 work for me - and the filter stayed in place the whole 3 years I used it.

[tobbj]

39 minutes ago, adan said:

Actually, I managed to filter that lens (again, only for M8 cropping) - by using a 39mm Leica UV/IR filter, "fattened up" a bit with several thin slices of black photographer's tape wrapped around the outside of the rim, and then press-fitted into the built-in lens hood.

Since it is a LTM mount, I got a pre-milled LTM-M adapter with 6-bit pits from a former member here who had access to a machine shop and sold them for $125 each. And coded it as a 16-18-21.

And since I am a dedicated "20/21mm" shooter (and like compact lenses), that combo "made" the M8 work for me - and the filter stayed in place the whole 3 years I used it.

Or a little bit something at the bottom (see the red arrow. I tried with a small cut from the used stern of cotton swabs)

 

You cannot use it on M10. It got colour shift on left and right side. SO I only take black and white on M10 with it. 

 

 

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Edited May 19, 2021 by tobbj

[pippy]

5 hours ago, tobbj said:

"Specifically recommended for M8" is still not the same as "... specifically for M8, causing serious vignetting for other models.. "...

I suspect that you will probably not want to hear it but, in actual fact, "Specifically", when used in this context, does mean that it is intended to be used solely on the M8.

Definition (Merriam-Webster dictionary) : "Used to indicate the exact identity, purpose, or use of something."

As Leica say that it is "Specifically recommended for the M8" that can be taken to preclude its proper use on other models.

Good that you have the 30-day-return thing!

Philip.

[tobbj]

25 minutes ago, pippy said:

I suspect that you will probably not want to hear it but, in actual fact, "Specifically", when used in this context, does mean that it is intended to be used solely on the M8.

Definition (Merriam-Webster dictionary) : "Used to indicate the exact identity, purpose, or use of something."

As Leica say that it is "Specifically recommended for the M8" that can be taken to preclude its proper use on other models.

Good that you have the 30-day-return thing!

Philip.

Sure, cannot disagree. But what I meant was 'specially for....' like I put it, would have been better. It puts the argument down to zero.

Anyway, I am little bit regret to have returned it this morning. Returned too quick...

I have got a Sigma FP L 4 days ago. I should have try it on the Sigma, maybe it is not that vignetting. Maybe it is, but should have tried it before returning it.

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Edited May 19, 2021 by tobbj