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Morning all
I have a M262 and would like to add a Q of some sort to my collection. On the whole, I prefer black and white. What I wanted to check with you sage folk is whether the Q2 renders excellent black and white photos (with the pertinent setting) or whether the Q2M is really streets ahead? Also, simply put from an even simpler mind, does the Q2M render black and white better than the Q2 does colour (because of the sensor differences)? 
Thanks a lot.

Ben

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3 hours ago, Loomis77 said:

Morning all
I have a M262 and would like to add a Q of some sort to my collection. On the whole, I prefer black and white. What I wanted to check with you sage folk is whether the Q2 renders excellent black and white photos (with the pertinent setting) or whether the Q2M is really streets ahead? Also, simply put from an even simpler mind, does the Q2M render black and white better than the Q2 does colour (because of the sensor differences)? 
Thanks a lot.

Ben

You could do some research and look at all the images in the Q2 and Q2M forums. You could also spend time on LFI to see images shot with both those cameras, and then decide for yourself.

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The mono gives you an artificial drawback, providing stellar resolution but in reality, to my eye, has no practical value. The advantage to move to black and white from color (having all the channels and not needing filters which additionally slow you down) outweighs the finer gradation and resolution (47 MP from the Q2 is over the top already).

It makes sense for the enthusiasts or as a third option.

Note this is highly subjective.

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I have a Q2 and am very happy with the B&W conversions. About 80% of my pictures are B&W and I appreciate that the Q2M would have the edge, especially at higher ISO but I doubt I have the skill to do justice to it and I’d miss the opportunity it’s to use colour for the other 20% of the time (and I’d never carry more than one camera). Q2 for me.

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B&W is very subjective. Some like high contrast and dark shadows, others prefer a long tonal range. I really think it is subjective like colour interpretation...ask 10 photographers and you'll get more than 10 answers.

You'll have to do you're own research.  But perhaps take 12 months or so and use colour conversions in the mean time.  Colour conversions and good processing make very very good B&W's.

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Comparing the Q2 to the Q2M - which is your question - to my eyes the Q2M is light years ahead.   As great as the Q2 is - and it is spectacular in every way possible way, the new Q2 monochrom is simply an entirely different beast that produces imagery second to none.  Those almost 48MP’s, combined with a stellar resolving sensor, is nothing short of amazing.

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Many thanks, all, for your replies. I have such great colour rendition from my M262 and Voigtlander 50mm that I am swaying toward the Q2M. I have had a look through the forum’s pictures and prefer the look of the Q2M pictures than the black and white from the Q2. I am not that au fait with post-processing so the pull of photos out of camera which are as good as I get with the M262 and which are that good out of the Q2M appeals greatly! 
Will carry on musing…

Thanks again all! 

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17 minutes ago, Loomis77 said:

Many thanks, all, for your replies. I have such great colour rendition from my M262 and Voigtlander 50mm that I am swaying toward the Q2M. I have had a look through the forum’s pictures and prefer the look of the Q2M pictures than the black and white from the Q2. I am not that au fait with post-processing so the pull of photos out of camera which are as good as I get with the M262 and which are that good out of the Q2M appeals greatly! 
Will carry on musing…

Thanks again all! 

Content matters when making comparisons.  What you really need is for someone to upload two photos of the same subject, one a B&W conversion of a Q2 image and the other taken with the Q2M.  Even then, I'm not sure if the resolution of photos uploaded to the forum is sufficient.

Deciding to go black and white is really a mindset thing.  When you use a camera only capable of taking B&W photos, you start out looking for B&W images.  The Q2M is perfect in this regard.

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Q2M , in my use of it, has these distinct pleasures/ benefits : luminance only noise at higher ISO for more pleasing effect; probably greater latitude in shadows at lower ISO; definitely better in low light situations for mono shots; I’d say shockingly clean details in many subjects ; and the joy of working only with tonal gradations rather than blocks of colour.

Versatility is lost because no colour channels to adjust . However, it’s not hard to use yellow and Orange screw- in filters and there is a certain satisfaction in doing more in camera. 
 

I would say don’t expect OOC excellence from the jpegs. The DNG files are dowdy affairs but there is a deep richness to bring out in conversion. Perhaps the most satisfying digital RAW files to see pop into life in Silver Efex Pro. 
 

Q2M is a pocket field camera such is the power of its resolution.  It is just a joy to use. 

 

For landscape I just wish the firmware offered aspect ratios as well as the 35 mm etc crop lines. 

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7 hours ago, IanH said:

I’d recommend checking out Reid Reviews (.com) he provides excellent comparisons on these topics with well written and thorough evidence/examples. Well worth the $60 (or whatever it is) per year. 

 

+1

Couldn’t agree more. Reid reviews offers great value to any Leica shooter. Annual subscription is only $39.95!!  

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Posted (edited)

I hope the following helps.  The shots were taken today in Washington, DC.  The aperture was f1.7, set at ISO 200, and both files are OOC.  The first is the Q2M and the second is Q2 converted to Monochrom.  Please share your thoughts.   BTW, more about Roosevelt Memorial is here.  

 

 

Edited by ibramr
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Posted (edited)
On 5/15/2021 at 6:29 AM, Loomis77 said:

Morning all
I have a M262 and would like to add a Q of some sort to my collection. On the whole, I prefer black and white. What I wanted to check with you sage folk is whether the Q2 renders excellent black and white photos (with the pertinent setting) or whether the Q2M is really streets ahead? Also, simply put from an even simpler mind, does the Q2M render black and white better than the Q2 does colour (because of the sensor differences)? 
Thanks a lot.

Ben

If you are truly a lover of black and white photography, the Q2 Mono or the M10 is (are) the camera(s) you want. As @Leica28 observed,

Quote

As great as the Q2 is - and it is spectacular in every way possible way, the new Q2 monochrom is simply an entirely different beast that produces imagery second to none.  Those almost 48MP’s, combined with a stellar resolving sensor, is nothing short of amazing.

I love the M cameras, but I still can't stop thinking about getting a Q2 Mono - even though I have an M10 Mono. 

I have been primarily color shooter up till now, but the Monochrom cameras have a way of getting into your head.  There is something special about them...

Edited by Herr Barnack
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Loomis77 said:

Hello - apologies for the delay in replying. Thanks so much @ibramrfor the two shots. Dare I say it, I actually prefer the rendition of the Q2…! Got a bit more detailing in it compared to the Q2M (to my eye). Very interesting…

Thanks again! 

I can't draw conclusive analysis from the two images as there could be an exposure difference - What you may find is that the Q2 by default has more contrast versus the Q2M with a more gradual tonality (see highlights on hats, and mid-tones on jackets), you can certainly get punchy detailed jpgs from the Q2M.

I have some Q2M high res jpgs on my site, and in this set there is a mix of Q2 and Q2M - I have processed the colours on the Q2, all b+w are Q2M.

https://www.danielcook.com/index.php/2021/05/23/family-lunch/

couple of Q2M high res sets (you can click all images to open them full screen then click again to zoom 3600px max)

https://www.danielcook.com/index.php/2021/05/23/short-london-visit/

https://www.danielcook.com/index.php/2021/05/10/like-a-dog-in-water/

https://www.danielcook.com/index.php/2021/05/07/back-to-the-q2m/

If I had the chance I was going to shoot the same subjects with both cameras to do comparisons, but I wanted to make the subjects interesting at least.

Edited by dancook
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I have an SL2 and a Q2M. I converted many color pictures from my SL2 to B&W and they look fantastic; and yet I still purchased a Q2M and prefer it for B&W work.

If you just want to convert color pictures to black and white, there is plenty of great software out there and unless you are printing large or pixel peeping, you might not notice a difference between a conversion and a native monochrom file.

BUT: The DNG files straight out of the Q2M are crazy - Unbelievable resolution. And you get better low light performance. But the most important difference to me is that you approach the camera and picture taking completely differently because the entire workflow end to end is black and white. You go out with a different mentality, you see black-and-white through the viewfinder, before you even raise it to your eye you are looking for patterns and dynamic contrasts that work well in black-and-white. And as a result the pictures you take are different.

I suspect that most of the people who look at a black-and-white only camera as having some disadvantage have never really used one extensively, or at least long enough to understand what its advantages are. Whether or not those advantages appeal to you personally is another question.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, trickness said:

I have an SL2 and a Q2M. I converted many color pictures from my SL2 to B&W and they look fantastic; and yet I still purchased a Q2M and prefer it for B&W work.

If you just want to convert color pictures to black and white, there is plenty of great software out there and unless you are printing large or pixel peeping, you might not notice a difference between a conversion and a native monochrom file.

BUT: The DNG files straight out of the Q2M are crazy - Unbelievable resolution. And you get better low light performance. But the most important difference to me is that you approach the camera and picture taking completely differently because the entire workflow end to end is black and white. You go out with a different mentality, you see black-and-white through the viewfinder, before you even raise it to your eye you are looking for patterns and dynamic contrasts that work well in black-and-white. And as a result the pictures you take are different.

I suspect that most of the people who look at a black-and-white only camera as having some disadvantage have never really used one extensively, or at least long enough to understand what its advantages are. Whether or not those advantages appeal to you personally is another question.

+1

I’m also an SL2 shooter and while I’ve only owned the Q2 M for less than a week, I’ve already discovered that the biggest difference, just as you describe it, is in the shooting process and the mental approach to seeing / composing that’s the real difference.

The Q2 M files themselves are amazing, but the Q2 M delivers a host of intangible benefits by focusing exclusively on end to end B&W.

With the Q2 M one is more likely to capture B&W images that may not have been captured on either the Q2 or SL2. Can’t compare the difference in a file one doesn't have...:)

Edited by NicholasT
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  • 3 weeks later...

Thank you all so much for your really helpful words of advice and apologies for the gross delay in acknowledging. I was out this afternoon on a lovely English summer’s day and realised that the colours in the fields, etc. are simply glorious. Whilst I fully appreciate the huge benefits of having the Q2M (especially the ability to think in black and white) I would find it hard to be out and about and “miss” the colour of something so gloriously simple as a field of buttercups. 
My thinking continues but the Q2 is leading in such thinking…

Thanks all again: such a great forum with solid advice. 

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  • 1 month later...

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