Jump to content

Jono's Review: Leica Vario Elmarit SL 24-70 f2.8 ASPH


Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

12 hours ago, earleygallery said:

Given that it's optically the same design as the Sigma lens, it would be logical to assume that it's made by Sigma (that said maybe Sigma outsource their production and they're made by Kyocera or similar).

The specifications are clearly different (number of low-dispersion elements).

My theory is that Leica's 24-70 is one of Sigma's proposed designs, which was rejected because it couldn't be made at Sigma's target price. Rather than putting this design on a shelf in their museum, Sigma proposed it to Leica. Leica needed a cheaper zoom to sell with the SL2-S. The SL2-S is priced competitively (it's not as expensive as other brands' high-end full-frame mirrorless), but a $5500 24-90 isn't price-competitive, no matter how good it is.

12 hours ago, earleygallery said:

I don't think that they can somehow up their game on the Leica assembly line. I would be amazed if the attention to detail was any different for each lens.

It's not a matter of paying more attention. They can apply stricter pass/fail standards. For instance, let's say their regular lenses need to perform within 5% of target to pass. They can change that to 3%. They know exactly how many lenses have to go back for adjustment, and how much that costs.

We will never know for sure, of course. It's not in Leica's or Sigma's interest to disclose these things. Especially Sigma, they are getting lots of free publicity from this (salesmen whispering "it's just as good as a Leica lens"). Clearly they benefit from this, especially when selling the same lens in Sony mount. Leica has the well-known issue that some of their fans haven't come to terms with the Portugal plant yet, after 50 years!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 153
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Here it is, Leica have just announced the new Vario Elmarit SL 24-70 f2.8 ASPH for L mount cameras. It's smaller and 300gm lighter than the 24-90, has a constant f2.8 aperture and is only a little bit more than half the price of it's bigger sibling. Even cheaper if you buy it as a kit with the SL2 or SL2S. Hello guest! Please register or sign in to view the hidden content. Hallo Gast! Du willst die Bilder sehen? Einfach registrieren oder anmelden! Hello guest! Please register

Hi guys, sorry to hijack Jono's thread but since I do have both the Sigma and Leica lenses with me right now I might share some insights after shooting with both side by side in my living room: The Sigma is a tad sharper wide open in the center, the Leica is sharper in the corners...again only a tad and differences are only visible when zooming in (like 200%). The more you close down the aperture the sharper the Leica gets overall.  On my SL2-S the Leica seem to be metered a bi

Hi,    yes, I agree that 2.8 is beside other topics, also a marketing topic. That lesser and lesser optics are parfocal is something which also stills-photographer do not like, but it's not such a big deal for them.    With all the whining about this only being a re-badged and therefore too expensive solution, it's in the end all about choices (so for me positive). First, there is now a Leica "entry-zoom" people can buy in the the kit or as an extra to have one affordabl

Posted Images

48 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

Can you share any links to show the exact specs of both? I can't find them.

Sigma 24-70 DG DN : "As extra-low dispersion glass materials, six sheets of “F” low dispersion (FLD) glass and two sheets of special low dispersion (SLD) glass are lavishly employed while taking advantage of an optical design dedicated for mirrorless lenses."

Sigma's lens has 8 "sheets" of low-dispersion glass (6 FLD + 2 SLD)

Leica 24-70: "These include three aspherical lens elements for the correction of monochromatic aberrations and nine elements made from glasses with anomalous partial dispersion for the correction of chromatic aberrations."

That's 9 for Leica's version.

That's all we know. At least one element is different, possibly more. That's why I suspect that it's a Sigma design. They generated several designs, and picked the one that best met their needs. Some designs performed better, but they would have lost money at a $1000 target price. It's just speculation on my part, I have no real insight (other than costing products in a different industry).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone compared the optical design of the Leica/Sigma 24-70 and Leica 24-90? The front 7 elements are nearly identical.

I’ve mentioned this elsewhere before but I’ll repeat. Sigma has patents on lens design dating back to around 2010 that has nearly identical front 7 elements as well. That to me looks like even the 24-90 design was originated at least to some degree with Sigma. It has Sigma’s fingerprints all over it. It’s not to say it’s good or bad, it’s just what it is.

The other two SL zooms were licensed design from Panasonic and Konica-Minolta so it would not come as a surprise if the Leica 24-90 was a Sigma design as well.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is also a possibility that Sigma designed the optical configuration but it was actually manufactured by the same rather unknown Japanese company that makes the lenses for the CL. ( not Sigma, look it up!) Of course meeting Leica's tolerances and specs.The 18-56 for the CL is a quality lens.

Doesn't matter to me who makes it as long as it's a great lens (which by all accounts it is). Made in Japan is top notch quality and in these days of "Made in China" you usually pay quite a premium for Japanese manufacture. Historically the Japanese made Leica lenses of the past, even going back to the original CL have been nothing short of excellent.For this reason there is nothing to be ashamed of and I wish Leica would just come out and say who makes the lens.Drop the secrecy. No need for the mystery.

You can buy two Sigma 24-70's for the price of one Leica 24-70? 

Yes - but.... 

In the extremely humid and rainy climate I live in I prefer an all metal lens and weatherproofing. So I'd still empty my wallet, get the Leica and enjoy the "feel" and handling every time I use it. The only reason I would get the Sigma would simply be to save money because I couldn't afford the Leica one. Nothing wrong with that either.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/28/2021 at 11:17 PM, beewee said:

The other two SL zooms were licensed design from Panasonic and Konica-Minolta so it would not come as a surprise if the Leica 24-90 was a Sigma design as well.

Past the first 3 lenses from the front I see more differences than similitudes for respective proportions, positions (close or cemented together) and curves in that glass to be honest.

Besides, computer aided-design can only give you "so many" different formulas whether you run in from your PC in Germany, France or Japan... it's up to the human to add compromises to those "perfect" computer generated optical designs to reduce size/weight/cost and do the balancing act between this and the optical quality you are willing to make your targeted audience carry/pay for. That's why seemingly "perfect" lenses in the film industry are so expensive and large: they don't have to compromise at all.

I guess the desire besides the first two ever lenses Leica made for the SL were following that same principle: make it as good as currently possible: hence why they were the largest Leica ever made for 35mm.... and the SL601+24/90 and 50 1.4 was the most expensive 35mm Leica at launch.... probably the most expensive 35mm lenses as well outside limited ludicrous M lenses.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1 hour ago, Slender said:

I guess the desire besides the first two ever lenses Leica made for the SL were following that same principle: make it as good as currently possible: hence why they were the largest Leica ever made for 35mm.... and the SL601+24/90 and 50 1.4 was the most expensive 35mm Leica at launch.... probably the most expensive 35mm lenses as well outside limited ludicrous M lenses.

No doubt this is the entire design paradigm of the SL system. Peter Karbe has confirmed this in the past. It is a performance focused platform where size/weight constraints are secondary to performance and cost in order to achieve highest performance at a price point that the market will still accept. Peter Karbe himself has mentioned that although the S system as a whole delivers higher performance than the SL zooms, the APO Summicron SL primes supersedes the performance of the S system.

The SL APO primes will deliver medium format resolution in a 35mm image circle. So as sensor technology improves, we’ll see SL bodies that compete with medium format sensor resolution into the future. The main difference would be that medium format will generally have an advantage in dynamic range over 35mm given the same resolution and sensor technology.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/29/2021 at 3:52 AM, BernardC said:

That's all we know. At least one element is different, possibly more. That's why I suspect that it's a Sigma design. They generated several designs, and picked the one that best met their needs. Some designs performed better, but they would have lost money at a $1000 target price. It's just speculation on my part, I have no real insight (other than costing products in a different industry).

@BernardC : 10 more posts from you and that number exactly matches the price of what we are talking about!  LOL

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

I'm trying to justify the 24-90 for my SL, but somewhat new to Leica and the lens lineup (Current & Past).

My initial thought was, could I put together a lens line up of primes that might be lighter in weight and cover the approximate range from 24-90?

Still sifting through and cooking this all down. Know this means more lens swapping.

Leica means Leica to me, made in Germany actually has value and meaning also. Leica should prove It's not a Sigma. Something scientific,  surrounding facts, results, modifications or design that can be clearly be demonstrated to customers and seen as Leica and not Sigma Art.

Ok, I'm done, sorry I spent my daily 2 cents her all in one place.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alan J said:

I'm trying to justify the 24-90 for my SL, but somewhat new to Leica and the lens lineup (Current & Past).

My initial thought was, could I put together a lens line up of primes that might be lighter in weight and cover the approximate range from 24-90?

Still sifting through and cooking this all down. Know this means more lens swapping.

Leica means Leica to me, made in Germany actually has value and meaning also. Leica should prove It's not a Sigma. Something scientific,  surrounding facts, results, modifications or design that can be clearly be demonstrated to customers and seen as Leica and not Sigma Art.

Ok, I'm done, sorry I spent my daily 2 cents her all in one place.

As far as sharpness goes, the Sigma i-series primes are very good. The 24/3.5 DG DN can resolve to 100 MP with multi-shot and I expect it to be sharper than the 24-90 zoom.

However, Leica prime lenses do have a certain look when shot wide open and that’s up to you to decide what you like. For me, the Leica zooms are not as outstanding as their primes as far as offering the unique rendering. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi 

I just bought a second hand one in Austria through internet . I had the Sigma 24 - 70 2.8 . I will try to look for the differences this weekend  . The main one for the moment is the construction. It’s a nice metal lens . 
just for info there is a second hand one on sale on the www.mpb.com European website on sale for quite a good price .

Have a great day everyone 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...