becker Posted April 30, 2021 Share #21 Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Won´t mind if its priced in and does affect zero % function. ( May be a its a priced lowered " Vorführer " ) But of course must not be there. Take it or leave it. Sorry to say but my experience, more like this, than flawless perfect products with Leica, not only with Leica often when manpower is involved. So called human. Edited April 30, 2021 by becker Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 30, 2021 Posted April 30, 2021 Hi becker, Take a look here Is this acceptable for a new Leica M-A?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsy Posted April 30, 2021 Share #22 Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) I think the "abrasions" on the film rail are the only thing that I might be concerned about and then only if the surface of the rail feels rough. Are they actually abrasions or just shiny tooling marks. Untidy for sure, but if the rail feels smooth, it's not something that will impair function. I've said it before here but I think you have to be philosophical buying a Leica film body. It's a bit like buying a custom shop Gibson guitar. You pay a lot of money and, most of the time, you get a fantastic product, but there will inevitably be one or two bits of hand manufacturing 'mojo' that do not affect functionality but which, if the buyer has expectations of a flawless finish and manufacturing perfection, will cause disappointment. Edited April 30, 2021 by wattsy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldwino Posted April 30, 2021 Share #23 Posted April 30, 2021 Send it back. Have it replaced. Leica needs to learn to fix their sloppy quality control. 7 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted April 30, 2021 Share #24 Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, jaapv said: Not acceptable IMO. Leica is about perfection. I agree with @jaapv 100%. Considering the prices we pay for these cameras and lenses, no new in box M camera or lens should come out of the box with any of those flaws. I can't tell from the photos if the marks on the shutter curtain are foreign objects or actual flaws. If they are flaws in the curtain, that is a deal breaker. As for the tool marks on the film rail guide, those are hands down a deal breaker. Quote ...Searching for perfection in manufactured goods would be hopeless. Sorry, but in my experience, that is just not true. Over the decades, I have purchased new in box a black paint film MP, an M240, an M-P240 Safari set, a Q2 and an M10 Monochrom. Every one of them came out of the box in flawless mint condition, as they should have - and believe me, I inspected each one hard. We pay many thousands of dollars/euros/rupees/whatever for minty new Leica M cameras - settling for flaws should not be a part of the deal. Edited April 30, 2021 by Herr Barnack 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 30, 2021 Share #25 Posted April 30, 2021 Some resale value has been lost anyway. Not sure why the OP should pay for that. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kivis Posted April 30, 2021 Share #26 Posted April 30, 2021 15 hours ago, Danner said: Indeed, I learned years ago that it is best not to shine a light through a brand new lens. Just shoot with it and be happy. 100%. If it works and you like the photos you make, I would not worry about it. My M-A is perfect on the exterior but not quite so much on the inside. I love my M-A just the same. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 30, 2021 Share #27 Posted April 30, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) Can't see much wrong with the shutter curtain from these images, it just looks like dust to me. The mark on guide rail looks like it could be more of an issue from a cosmetic point of view even if it doesn't affect the film. I'd take it back to the dealer and get them to sort it out with Leica for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta100 Posted April 30, 2021 Share #28 Posted April 30, 2021 My best advice would be to send it back to Leica via your dealer. If you do not return it you will always have concerns about your camera. Take no notice of people who say that your camera is normal, its not! I had problems with my second MP so It went back to Leica. Good luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaFan1 Posted May 1, 2021 Share #29 Posted May 1, 2021 Was the M-A sealed in the outer grey box when you received it? Finish is unacceptable for a new camera. Return it and get a replacement. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted May 1, 2021 Share #30 Posted May 1, 2021 I never owned new film M. Is yours new? If not, previous owner was trasher. I checked two old FED-2 and they have different scratches on film plate. I checked old Nikkormat. It has no such scratch. My M4-2 is loaded with film at this moment... Scroll to the bottom of here. https://www.cameraquest.com/LeicaM4G.htm This one of the GW's Leicas. It has no such scratch. After been made and in many rolls of use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Morgan Posted May 1, 2021 Share #31 Posted May 1, 2021 I just took a film out of my 1963 M3 and the film rails have a little wear but no silver missing. Send it back, it should be pristine new. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica-curious Posted May 3, 2021 Author Share #32 Posted May 3, 2021 On 4/30/2021 at 11:05 AM, lct said: Some resale value has been lost anyway. Not sure why the OP should pay for that. Yes, this was another concern of mine. If I were to ever want to sell it then I'd expect the next buyer would point out the obvious marks on the film guide rail and expect a greater discount than a used M-A without the marks. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica-curious Posted May 3, 2021 Author Share #33 Posted May 3, 2021 On 4/30/2021 at 3:43 AM, wattsy said: I think the "abrasions" on the film rail are the only thing that I might be concerned about and then only if the surface of the rail feels rough. Are they actually abrasions or just shiny tooling marks. Untidy for sure, but if the rail feels smooth, it's not something that will impair function. I quickly ran my finger across it, but didn't touch it much further. It didn't seem rough at a quick pass so it might be tooling marks. Although, I imagine if there were any fine abrasions they could end up scratching the negative. On 4/30/2021 at 10:45 AM, Herr Barnack said: I agree with @jaapv 100%. Considering the prices we pay for these cameras and lenses, no new in box M camera or lens should come out of the box with any of those flaws. I can't tell from the photos if the marks on the shutter curtain are foreign objects or actual flaws. If they are flaws in the curtain, that is a deal breaker. As for the tool marks on the film rail guide, those are hands down a deal breaker. The marks on the shutter do not appear to be foreign objects. The one in the center near the upper rail catches my eye the most. It almost looks like a slight smudge in the rubber material as if some of the rubber material is missing. I don't have a magnifying glass on hand to take a closer look. On 4/30/2021 at 11:30 AM, kivis said: 100%. If it works and you like the photos you make, I would not worry about it. My M-A is perfect on the exterior but not quite so much on the inside. I love my M-A just the same. What is not perfect on the inside of your M-A? On 4/30/2021 at 1:30 PM, Ouroboros said: Can't see much wrong with the shutter curtain from these images, it just looks like dust to me. The mark on guide rail looks like it could be more of an issue from a cosmetic point of view even if it doesn't affect the film. I'd take it back to the dealer and get them to sort it out with Leica for you. The three areas I pointed out on the curtain are not dust. On 4/30/2021 at 8:55 PM, LeicaFan1 said: Was the M-A sealed in the outer grey box when you received it? Finish is unacceptable for a new camera. Return it and get a replacement. Yes, the M-A was sealed in the outer grey box when I received it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica-curious Posted May 3, 2021 Author Share #34 Posted May 3, 2021 I opened the back up again a moment ago to take another look. I ran my nail down the upper rail and it didn't catch on anything. However, my eye caught a mark in the light I didn't notice when I took the photographs. The upper, lower rail has a nick in the lower edge. If I run my nail down the rail it catches in the same location every time. It is slightly visible in one of the photos I posted earlier. I've attached a modified version that highlights the area with a red circle. Open the full size image and zoom in the circle and you'll see the nick. This seems to roll the concern further into dealbreaker territory. If It catches my nail then I imagine it could scratch negatives. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/320422-is-this-acceptable-for-a-new-leica-m-a/?do=findComment&comment=4193148'>More sharing options...
ianman Posted May 3, 2021 Share #35 Posted May 3, 2021 Honestly, just send it back. You’ll never be happy with this one. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreasG Posted May 3, 2021 Share #36 Posted May 3, 2021 I think there are further parts (inside yellow circles) which are not perfect - some edges of the film window are not straight, maybe remaining lacquer or so. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/320422-is-this-acceptable-for-a-new-leica-m-a/?do=findComment&comment=4193218'>More sharing options...
humerc Posted May 4, 2021 Share #37 Posted May 4, 2021 I have a new MP since a few weeks. It also has (after really close inspection) a few black marks on the upper film rail. I just use it and it works completely as it should. If I would look that closely on my (not really cheap) new car - I would always find some things that are not 100% perfect, and also at my new suits and at the new kitchen and so on… Just use it… you will never find the perfect M-A if such small things really hurt your soul. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spydrxx Posted May 5, 2021 Share #38 Posted May 5, 2021 Personally if it was mine, I'd just use it and not worry. However, the fact that it raises issues with you, I'd advise you to return it. You'll never be happy with it having nagging concerns that you bought and paid full price for a camera which had noticeable (to you) imperfections. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted May 5, 2021 Share #39 Posted May 5, 2021 I just opened up my 10 year old Leica M7 a la carte and noticed very similar marks on the film rails. I have used it for years without issue. I think this is not a manufacturing problem, but a natural variation that comes from the tooling required flatten the rails to be perfectly aligned. So from my perspective, I would consider this acceptable. People say "at the price we pay etc", but also fail to account that this is one of the reasons why the price is so high...that people are returning so many cameras for tiny cosmetic variations. I think the buyer could certainly return the camera, but I personally don't think it is likely that the next camera will necessarily be any better. I would agree, however, if the film rails are not smooth, then it is worth returning. It looks like there is just a slight gloss differential, rather than roughness. That is what mine has... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted May 5, 2021 Share #40 Posted May 5, 2021 The horizontal film rails are outside of the film image area so shouldn’t have any impact on picture quality, they would need to be very rough to snag the film or scrap emulsion off the film. But even so with an expensive piece of equipment you should expect it to be perfect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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