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a dramatic proof of the new 35 APO supremacy?


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10 hours ago, farnz said:

It's a little disingenuous to quote a dictionary definition and then append it to make it fit the purpose.  Either the referred dictionary definition works by itself or it doesn't.

Pete.

Please accept my profuse apologies - I was unaware that you are the sole arbiter of what works and what is disingenuous.

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According to Google:

Supremacy

noun: supremacy

the state or condition of being superior to all others in authority, power, or status

"the supremacy of the king"

Appended or not, the definition is still applicable to the lens in question.

 

 

Edited by Herr Barnack
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The reissue of legendary lenses  is quite unique, as were all Noctiluxes , the Summilux 50 asph was hailed as the best 50 ever, the Summilux 75, the Summiluxes 21 and 24, the APO Telyt Modul system, the Summicron 50 APO ,the Telyt 180/3.4 APO, and I have just started. I’d say that many Leica lenses were quite unique at their release and quite a few still are. 

If some Leica lenses are too expensive for some people there are excellent ZM and CV lenses for them so what's the issue? Hard to understand those recurrent rants about Leica prices. Leica M lenses are the very best compact lenses in the world. One does not have to buy them don't they, so why raining on others parade? To repeat banalities? 

I think it is always difficult to transfer the results between different lenses (mostly under standardized conditions) with real life situations. Most of my portrait photography is done with the 50 Apo and an analog M. But to be honest when I look at the photos, I can not decide whether I took the photos with the 50 APO,  my Nikon 1.4/50 (from with a F6), or a 2.8/50 Elmar (which I sold). 

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, setuporg said:

Well it's not a macro lens for me.  35mm is a landscape/city lens.  I'll have to see the street difference to pop.

You have to try a lens to see an esoteric something like “pop”. Any lens can look great herein.

Ive not tried the Leica 35 APO, but the CV 35 APO is astounding on the M10-R for landscape. High microcontrast and razor sharp to the edges. At infinity it equals the results I get from my GFX 50R + GF 45. 

Edited by hdmesa
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vor 2 Stunden schrieb setuporg:

Based on price that should be at least 7x worse than the Leica 35mm APO?

Very right. I belong to the group of people that sees indeed a distinct difference in the shots of the lens tests published above, but in ral word I can not distinguish my own 35mm Fotos and say if they came from my Summilux or from my Canon 35mm 1.4. I shoot in RAW and process my pictures in Lightroom. What I realise immediately is wether the light was right during the shot. For me that is much more important than anything else.

But some might contradict here. I am no Pro and I might miss something. 

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6 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

Please accept my profuse apologies - I was unaware that you are the sole arbiter of what works and what is disingenuous.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." - from Hamlet, a play by William Shakespeare. 🙂

Pete.

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1 hour ago, setuporg said:

I've just realized the 35mm APO-Lanthar came out in February.  What's the word on the street on how it compares to the Leica 35 APO?

Thus far, it’s quite silent in the street on that topic. You can make your own comparisons in the threads dedicated to both lenses here on the forum. I do not at all see 7 times difference, apart from the fact that I love power-shopping

Edited by otto.f
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, setuporg said:

I've just realized the 35mm APO-Lanthar came out in February.  What's the word on the street on how it compares to the Leica 35 APO?

 

14 minutes ago, otto.f said:

Thus far, it’s quite silent in the street on that topic. You can make your own comparisons in the threads dedicated to both lenses here on the forum. I do not at all see 7 times difference, apart from the fact that I love power-shopping

Might be easier to search comparisons between the Apo-50s from Leica and Voigtlander. The 35s should perform similarly with the VM showing more vignetting at f2. Illumination is more even at 2.8+. The pride in owning a very special Leica product will account for much of the disparity. I've not touched the Leica but I do own and like both the VM Apo-Lanthar lenses... a little long but friendly weight and very enjoyable haptics to my hands. 

Shot with the Apo-Lanthar 35 _Sigma fp. I am looking forward to exploring these optics in combination with the 61mp sensor on the Sigma fp-L

Edited by Alan Friedman
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It seems to me the only way to resolve this is to lock all parties in a room, arm them each with unloaded sport dueling pistols and then throw one round into the room and turn off the lights.

Sport duelling pistols[edit]

 
Pistol dueling as an associate event at the 1908 London Olympic Games

During the late 19th and the early 20th centuries, duelling became a sport in which shooters fired at each other using non-lethal rounds. These consisted of wax bullets in a cartridge without any powder charge; the bullet was propelled only by the explosion of the cartridge's primer.[10] Participants wore heavy, protective clothing and a metal helmet, similar to a fencing mask but with an eye-screen of thick glass. Pistol dueling was an associate (non-medal) event at the 1906 and 1908 Olympic games (see Olympic dueling).

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, setuporg said:

A very upbeat test environment:)

Indeed!... no squawking and only an occasional honk now and then.

My sense is that most will find the VM Apo-Lanthar 35 impressively sharp with false color very well suppressed. Those for whom the Leica Apo-Summicron 35 is a must have will have no need to look further. 

Forest Lawn Cemetery is a few blocks from my home and provides some handsome landscapes that have been under cultivation for more than a century and a half. The walk to and from is also filled with interesting stuff to photograph. 

full size crop:

Edited by Alan Friedman
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Posted (edited)
On 4/26/2021 at 3:25 PM, horosu said:

Define supremacy

Supremacy (noun)

1. (Art) A summation of the characteristics of an implement used in artistic practice (e.g., the length and bristle count of a paint brush) with little relevance to the quality of the finished artwork.

2. (Physics) The performance of a lens or optical system measurable only in ideal conditions, typically requiring use of a tripod, stationary test target, and high definition monitor.

3. (Finance) A property commonly attributed to any object costing at least 3 months' salary.

Edited by Anbaric
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16 hours ago, setuporg said:

Based on price that should be at least 7x worse than the Leica 35mm APO?

As was mentioned, the 50 APOs have been compared:

  • CV has heavier vignetting wide open, Leica has very little
  • CV is sharper in the corners, Leica is sharper in the center
  • CV is physically longer/larger, Leica is shorter/more compact
  • CV FOV is slightly shorter than advertised, Leica FOV is slightly longer

I have the CV 35 and 50 – Maybe the two highest-IQ lenses I've ever used. They give medium format-level results on the M10-R.

Most of the cost premium for the Leica comes from the skilled labor and precision required to assemble such a small, complex lens.

 

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10 hours ago, Alan Friedman said:

VM Apo-Lanthar 35 impressively sharp

Seems a very likeable lens as such. If you already own the FLE, like me,  which is also big, I don’t know whether there’s a real advantage at the end of the day.

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Posted (edited)
vor 10 Stunden schrieb hdmesa:

Most of the cost premium for the Leica comes from the skilled labor and precision required to assemble such a small, complex lens.

I don't think that the labor force in Japan is less skilled or works with less precision compared to Germany. However cost of labor is approx. 70% compared with Germany.

Edited by AndreasG
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vor 35 Minuten schrieb AndreasG:

I don't think that the labor force in Japan is less skilled or works with less precision compared to Germany. However cost of labor is approx. 70% compared with Germany.

... and CV isn't considering itself as a manufacturer of luxury items but a producer of photography tools😉

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19 minutes ago, AndreasG said:

I don't think that the labor force in Japan is less skilled or works with less precision compared to Germany. However cost of labor approx. 70% compared with Germany.

... not to forget that we pay a supremacy surplus for the brand name when buying Leica products.

When buying Leica today, we mostly buy the story, the legend, the owners pride and joy and the resell value (if bought used).

In the days of analog photography, particularly when comparing normal and wide angle lenses, the Leica M lenses clearly was sharper than the SLR counterparts (and regarding wides surely had more precise focusing too). The difference was readily visible on a print in A4 / Letter size when shooting 400 ISO film. Today we are scrutinizing 45MP and whatnot megapixel images fully zoomed in and the difference between a top performer from other brands (like Voigtländer) is sometimes barely visible and in some cases the outrageously much cheaper lens is sharper or otherwise technically better than the Leica lens.

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56 minutes ago, AndreasG said:

I don't think that the labor force in Japan is less skilled or works with less precision compared to Germany. However cost of labor is approx. 70% compared with Germany.

How is it compared to Portugal, where much (most?) of Leica's manufacturing happens?

When I see that Leica charge £120 for a UV filter (with an alloy ring, these days), while German precision company Schneider-Kreuznach charge about £50 for their top of the range B+W equivalent (with a brass ring), I begin to wonder if we need to apply a 'supremacy multiplier' of around 2.4x to understand where Leica prices come from.

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