LEICA VARIO-ELMARIT-SL 24–70mm f/2.8 ASPH

[Cobram]

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I was really excited about smaller Leica zoom lens... instead we got... ehh. Disappointed.

Leica shall outsource m-mount FF EVF camera. Why on earth they outsource/rebadge their strongest selling point - lenses?

[Cobram]

2 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

This is more a confirmation that Sigma is doing good.

Will Leica rehouse other lenses 35mm 1.4 or long zoom...

Why not rehouse Voigtlander? 😋 

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[Ivar B]

3 minutes ago, Cobram said:

I was really excited about smaller Leica zoom lens... instead we got... ehh. Disappointed.

Leica shall outsource m-mount FF EVF camera. Why on earth they outsource/rebadge their strongest selling point - lenses?

Could be due to capacity or cost saving issues. Nothing wrong with outsourcing. Rolls Royce uses a BMW V12 engine. Aston Martin uses a Mercedes AMG engine for the V8. 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Ivar B

[Photoworks]

2 minutes ago, Cobram said:

I was really excited about smaller Leica zoom lens... instead we got... ehh. Disappointed.

Leica shall outsource m-mount FF EVF camera. Why on earth they outsource/rebadge their strongest selling point - lenses?

Probably because they can't develop them quick enough , it takes years to make a lens for Leica.
For now you get a Sigma Lens with pretty Leica fonts that matches your other set, in the future you may get a remake.

[Cobram]

5 minutes ago, Ivar B said:

Could be due to capacity or cost saving issues. Nothing wrong with outsourcing. Rolls Royce uses a BMW engine. Aston Martin uses a Mercedes engine for the V8. 

 

True. I understand outsourcing. Nothing wrong with that. But Rolls Royce design is not even similar to the BMW. Here we got one product with two different names 😂

At the end we can call it globalisation, outsourcing, rebadge, font/name aligment,... long R&D times... what I know is very plain and simple: I'm disappointed!

Edited May 6, 2021 by Cobram

[Photoworks]

2 minutes ago, Cobram said:

Why not rehouse Voigtlander? 😋 

they Make AF lenses?

Even if it would be slow focus, I would want to see a techart LM-Ea7 style adapter to AF M lenses on SL cameras..

[Cobram]

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4 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

they Make AF lenses?

Even if it would be slow focus, I would want to see a techart LM-Ea7 style adapter to AF M lenses on SL cameras..

I was thinking about M-mount. 

15 4.5 Heliar --> 15 4.5 Elmar ?

75 1.5 Nokton --> 75 1.5 Summitar ?

90 3.5 Lanthar --> 90 3.5 Elmar

etc...

I think they can "develop" many many extraordinary new lenses in future decade 😋

Edited May 6, 2021 by Cobram

[rsh]

12 hours ago, Studienkamera said:

Maybe not recent, but at that time I thought the relatively affordable Kyocera-made Vario-Elmar lenses for the R system were very successful. But I have no data to back this up.

The 35-70 f4 R and the 80-200 f4 R were both wonderful lenses, optically terrific, as well built as the German made R lenses and compact enough to carry as a two lens combo on a trip.  Yes, they were built by Kyocera and based in Leica designs, but Kyocera had a well deserved history of building the terrific  Contax SLR and lens lines.

I am sure this lens will sell well as the price is much lower than the 24-90 which many cannot afford or are unwilling to spend for.  Most of us that own Leica gear are fortunate we can afford it.  This lens should help bring in new Leica users.  Older Leica users may want this lens because it will not break the bank and it will hold its value more than the Sigma and the image quality will be excellent.
 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by rsh

[BernardC]

6 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Are you sure ? Not the same at all. 
Contax is Zeiss brand by the way.
Zeiss can be manufactured by Cosina, Kyocera or whatever but they are still Zeiss exclusive design.

What exactly is the difference between a Zeiss manufactured by Cosina, or Kyocera, or Yashica, or Nokia, or Rollei (who were co-owned with Schneider for a while), and a Leica manufactured by Konica-Minolta, or Sigma, or by Leica using Panasonic sub-assemblies? You are making a very subtle distinction, so it would be nice for you to say exactly what it is, instead of moving the line constantly. By the way, the difference can not be that Zeiss designed all these lenses, they did not. They may have reviewed, refined, and approved, but all indications point to the fact that some Zeiss designs were drawn-up by their partners. Kyocera were famously frustrated that Zeiss were too slow to approve their ideas. They had know-how (inherited from Zunow and Tomioka) and designed/manufactured full lenses for other brands: Leica, Nikon, etc.

Quote

However Hasselblad is totally transparent about the origin of their lenses : Zeiss, Schneider, Fujifilm or Nikko. 
Which Leica is not. 

The Hasselblad one is easy. Have a look at X-Pan lenses, or H lenses, or late F-mount zooms, or X-system lenses. Do they say who made them? No. Some of these sources are inferred because of Japan-only versions, some are speculation. They identified Nikko for some X1D lenses,  only because none of the internet "experts" had heard of them. That was funny , lens snobs didn't know what to think. However, that was only for the initial batch, and they have not said anything for later lenses.

Quote

Nothing alike Panasonic camera rebranded as Leica in any other brands. Except Hasselblad failed attempt. 

• Cosina made cameras for Nikon and for most other Japanese brands.
• Fuji made/makes cameras for Hasselblad, Leica, and probably others.
• The R3-to-R7 cameras were based on Minolta designs (and certainly more similar to Minoltas than the SL is to any contemporary Panasonic).
• The cheaper Rollei SLRs from the 1970 were sold under various other brand names including Zeiss Ikon.

None of what Leica is doing is in any way unusual. Some collectors may be upset (but not really, because nobody seriously collects SL lenses), others will be pleased because they can add to their collections. I do realize that some people are surprised when they first find-out this "secret de polichinelle", but it's been going on since before any of us were born. The same discussions take place with collectors of 19th Century optics!

[Simone_DF]

35 minutes ago, BernardC said:

What exactly is the difference between a Zeiss manufactured by Cosina, or Kyocera, or Yashica, or Nokia, or Rollei

"manufactured by" =! "developed by"

Cosina builds Zeiss lenses based on Zeiss lens design and specs.

Leica has just replaced the outer shell, but the lens was designed by Sigma for Sigma. 

[RoySmith]

Does the barrel of the lens say Made in Germany, Made in Japan, or is it blank ?

[msh58]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb Simone_DF:

"manufactured by" =! "developed by"

Cosina builds Zeiss lenses based on Zeiss lens design and specs.

Leica has just replaced the outer shell, but the lens was designed by Sigma for Sigma. 

Good point! 

As far as the Zeiss-design Leica M mount ZM lenses go, the two most complex ones (Sonnar ZM 85/2, not in production any more, and Distagon ZM 15/2.8) were deemed to meet the quality standards only if they were made in Germany instead of the Japanese subcontractor.

[BernardC]

6 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

"manufactured by" =! "developed by"

Cosina builds Zeiss lenses based on Zeiss lens design and specs.

Leica has just replaced the outer shell, but the lens was designed by Sigma for Sigma. 

Are you sure? That may be true of some designs, but many contemporary accounts state otherwise, especially for the Kyocera relationship.

Zeiss and Cosina haven't released any new designs in a very long time, but we know that Cosina are very capable of designing high-quality lenses, and any lens designer can design lenses using classical Zeiss formulas (Planar, Biogon, etc). Who's hand was on the mouse? Where were the microprocessors located? Who signed the designer's paycheck? Who gets the attribution if it's clearly a team effort? There is no clear answer, and Leica has an extremely long history of collaborations. Check the historical forum. Is a pre-war Schneider-manufactured lens based on a British patent considered a Leica lens? Most collectors think so, but some disagree (or rather chose to collect different lenses).

That's why this whole discussion is silly. These lenses are what they are. There is a huge historical precedent. Only those who are unfamiliar with photographic history are surprised, and I'm sure that the vast majority of them understand the history once it is explained to them.

[nicci78]

Voigtländer lenses are designed and manufactured by Cosina. Voigtländer is just a licensed brand for japanese Cosina to look like a german company, which it's not at all. 

Zeiss lenses are designed by Zeiss but manufactured by Cosina. Except 15mm and 85mm ZM, which were made in Germany

 

Most of TL/SL zoom lenses are designed by Konica Minolta, under Leica specifications, but made in Japan. Is it still a Leica ?

Summicron-TL is design by Leica, but made in Japan. Still a Leica ? 

Patents exists, we have access to them, we can determine who designed any given lens. 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by nicci78

[Slender]

11 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

 

Zeiss lenses are designed by Zeiss but manufactured by Cosina. Except 15mm and 85mm ZM, which were made in Germany

Ain't the 35 1.4 German made as well?

[SoarFM]

On 5/4/2021 at 1:52 PM, jaapv said:

Leica lenses for the TL system are not made by Leica (in Japan, but not by Panasonic), but are still Leica lenses.

And are pretty darn good too!

[paul.bridges.3388]

SL2 and SL2-S kit bundle splash from Leica Manchester, just in by email.

Leica Vario-Elmarit-SL 1:2.8/ 24-70 mm APSH.

Our new lens for the L mount system. With its constant f/2.8 aperture. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

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Edited May 6, 2021 by paul.bridges.3388

[msh58]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Slender:

Ain't the 35 1.4 German made as well?

It is made in Japan, but works wonderfully both on an M10 and SL. 

[Cobram]

32 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Are you sure? That may be true of some designs, but many contemporary accounts state otherwise, especially for the Kyocera relationship.

Zeiss and Cosina haven't released any new designs in a very long time, but we know that Cosina are very capable of designing high-quality lenses, and any lens designer can design lenses using classical Zeiss formulas (Planar, Biogon, etc). Who's hand was on the mouse? Where were the microprocessors located? Who signed the designer's paycheck? Who gets the attribution if it's clearly a team effort? There is no clear answer, and Leica has an extremely long history of collaborations. Check the historical forum. Is a pre-war Schneider-manufactured lens based on a British patent considered a Leica lens? Most collectors think so, but some disagree (or rather chose to collect different lenses).

That's why this whole discussion is silly. These lenses are what they are. There is a huge historical precedent. Only those who are unfamiliar with photographic history are surprised, and I'm sure that the vast majority of them understand the history once it is explained to them.

Thank you for explanation.

Are we still talking about one lens with two different names? 

Shall I buy Sigma or Sigma zoom lens? I'm convinced now. I will buy something else 😂

Edited May 6, 2021 by Cobram

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[MediaFotografie]

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• lens 2.550
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• KIT SL2 7.990

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