LEICA VARIO-ELMARIT-SL 24–70mm f/2.8 ASPH

[setuporg]

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2 hours ago, Jk1002 said:

Sigma is not weather proof

I read Sigma 24-70 is weatherproof, while 28-70 isn’t.

[MediaFotografie]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb setuporg:

I read Sigma 24-70 is weatherproof, while 28-70 isn’t.

exactly, 24-70 is a member  of Sigma‘s Art Series, which is weatherproof, whereas 28-70 is a little bit cheaper contemporary series

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[nicci78]

Leica should be even better sealed, because they got rid of the superfluous switches and button. 
Please not that the front element do not have sealing. So you have to add a filter to complete the sealing. Exactly like Canon lenses  

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Edited May 5, 2021 by nicci78

[Simone_DF]

9 hours ago, setuporg said:

It would be more interesting if it were a small, light, native and excellent 28-70.

Leica may rebadge that one next 

[Simone_DF]

13 hours ago, hansvons said:

But that's precisely what Leica is not about and other great products in the world neither. They are meant to inspire and not to function under the bleak regiment of price-performance ratios.

If this lens is indeed just a rebadged Sigma 24-70 without the AF switch and a different coat and no significant optical difference, what exactly is going to inspire that the Sigma won't do?

[Jk1002]

So on the weatherproofing BHphoto does not list that. The manual says light rain is fine stating its not water proof. To me thats not weather proof. Might be a translation issue.
JK

[BernardC]

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17 hours ago, nicci78 said:

So we have now real Leica lenses made in Germany. 
less real one made in Japan. 
Some Panasonic lenses co-branded as Leica DG. 
Some Lumix S Pro certified by Leica. 
And now a Sigma rehoused as a Leica optic.

You are forgetting Canada, Portugal, Switzerland and, of course, France! Leica has sold optics made in all of those countries. It's the sort of information that only matters to collectors, who are only interested in M lenses anyway.

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

If this lens is indeed just a rebadged Sigma 24-70 without the AF switch and a different coat and no significant optical difference, what exactly is going to inspire that the Sigma won't do?

Nicci78's rumour link stated that the lens would have different optics as well as a different build.

[nicci78]

15 minutes ago, BernardC said:

It's the sort of information that only matters to collectors,

That’s exactly the problem. Such lens or body will bear a stigma forever. 
Just like people are still referring to the real origin of a any specific R lens : Minolta, Schneider, Kyocera, SIGMA, etc…

No matter what you think, the origin of the lens will matter in future resell value. 
For future buyers (not necessarily Collectors) it might be made in Germany only. Or Canada during Mandler era. Because we are talking about a luxury brand. History matters as much or even more than performance. 
 

This Vario-Elmarit-SL 24-70mm will be called Sigma clone forever. It will be compare constantly to its sibling.
And people will continue to point at it to consider Leica as a reseller of rebadge stuff at higher price. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by nicci78

[BernardC]

17 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Really nobody did what Leica is doing. It is diluting its brand strength. 

Off the top of my head: Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Pentax, Zeiss (Contax), Zeiss (Sony), Zeiss/Zeiss (stills), Zeiss/Zeiss (cine), Hasselblad, Rollei, Sinar, Alpa (both incarnations), Schneider, Angenieux, PhaseOne.

[Simone_DF]

38 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Nicci78's rumour link stated that the lens would have different optics as well as a different build.

Ah great! That is good news and may justify the increase in price! 

[frame-it]

32 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

That’s exactly the problem. Such lens or body will bear a stigma forever. 
Just like people are still referring to the real origin of a any specific R lens : Minolta, Schneider, Kyocera, SIGMA, etc…

No matter what you think, the origin of the lens will matter in future resell value. 

you mean lenses with electronics can actually maintain their value like M / R lenses ?

[Simone_DF]

6 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Off the top of my head: Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Pentax, Zeiss (Contax), Zeiss (Sony), Zeiss/Zeiss (stills), Zeiss/Zeiss (cine), Hasselblad, Rollei, Sinar, Alpa (both incarnations), Schneider, Angenieux, PhaseOne.

None of these brands position themselves as a luxury/lifestyle brand though, except Hasselblad before the DJI acquisition. Canon users (just picking one from the list) won't care too much about a rebadge because they tend to see the lenses as tools. The moment you step into the luxury realm, though, different expectations come into play. They may be justified or not, in the end I think this is a double edged sword for Leica.

Remember what happened to the Hasselblad Lunar, a rebadged Nex 7? 

Hasselblad PR had to step in:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/9132384458/hasselblad-lunar-mirrorless-camera

but in the end the negative PR generated by the rebadging pratice had a substantial hit on sales and they had to stop this process entirely and "re-visit core values":

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0836495084/hasselblad-interview-ceo-perry-oosting

[BernardC]

13 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

None of these brands position themselves as a luxury/lifestyle brand though, except Hasselblad before the DJI acquisition.

That Hasselblad thing was a mess, but they changed course very quickly, and I'm sure that the executives who came-up with that strategy decided "to spend more time with their families."

However, Hasselblad has a long history of selling bought-in lenses. Many kept their original brands (Kodak, then Zeiss), but almost everything after the mid-1990s was sold as Hasselblad (X-Pan, F-mount zooms, H-series, now X1D).

I disagree that Leica is a lifestyle brand, at least with the SL. The M is a fascinating symbiotic mix of luxury marketing and hard-core photography. They couldn't afford to make the product without the luxury audience, but then again the luxury audience wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the street-cred.

[TeleElmar135mm]

I think it's a problem of transparancy, If Leica or any other brand says, yes this is a xy- lens, We do this because we want to have such a lens in our portfolio and it's for those who want the look and feeling of Leica and we have changed this and that - than it's ok. But not through the backdoor.

And if it realy the Sigma, then I hoe they improve the quality at 50mm and the clos up quality (look at cameralabs) there is a very good test and samples.

 

https://www.cameralabs.com/sigma-24-70mm-f2-8-dg-dn-art-review/

[la1402]

On 5/4/2021 at 10:25 AM, jaapv said:

It has been thus since Leica cooperated with third-party lens makers for certain lenses. Despite rumours that Leica picks the best examples from the series, it has never been substantiated. Yet customers did and do choose for the comfort of the red dot.

Now to be fair - the performance of a lens is part optics, part mechanics. If Leica has better tolerance management for the mechanical parts of the lens -as the barrel will be produced for Leica specifically (which alone will drive up the price due to a smaller number)-  that in itself will have a positive impact on the final image quality. Whether this incremental improvement justifies the price difference, the market will decide. Leica clearly thinks so.

It will have to be much better than the Sigma. I had the Sigma 24-70 on the SLS2-S for a few weeks, and it was not great at all outside of center compared to a Nikon Z 24-70 on a Nikon Z6. Youtube is full of influencers, who oversell this lens IMHO.

Independent test will show wether this will be worth that much. But I think Leica Buyers will not be too price sensitive anyway...

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, BernardC said:

That Hasselblad thing was a mess, but they changed course very quickly, and I'm sure that the executives who came-up with that strategy decided "to spend more time with their families."

However, Hasselblad has a long history of selling bought-in lenses. Many kept their original brands (Kodak, then Zeiss), but almost everything after the mid-1990s was sold as Hasselblad (X-Pan, F-mount zooms, H-series, now X1D).

I disagree that Leica is a lifestyle brand, at least with the SL. The M is a fascinating symbiotic mix of luxury marketing and hard-core photography. They couldn't afford to make the product without the luxury audience, but then again the luxury audience wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the street-cred.

I agree with you that the Lunar was a bit too much... but on Leica positioning as a lifestyle brand, Leica is the one that has a section on their site called Lifestyle:

https://www.leicastoreamsterdam.nl/lifestyle/

Where, among various things of dubious taste, they sell lifestyle accessories like a fountain pen for 750€

https://www.leicastoremanchester.com/st-dupont-095-fountain.html

a Leica Zegna wrist strap for 300€

https://www.leicastoremanchester.com/wrist-strap.html

And let's not forget the L1 and L2 mechanical watches

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/leica-watch-l1-l2-introducing

I don't know what you consider a luxury lifestyle brand, but for me Leica definitely falls into this category big time by selling a whole series of items through their Leica Boutiques (note the name) that are completely unrelated to photography. Leica is trying to sell us an identity around luxurious and indulgent experiences, like using a fountain pen, wearing a mechanical watch or use a rangefinder film camera.

Mind you, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and if it helps sustaining the company and developing the camera and lenses we love, more power to Leica!

[setuporg]

7 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

what exactly is going to inspire that the Sigma won't do?

A burning hole in your wallet!

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Leica doesn't have a great recent history of being successful with *cheap* lenses. Even the rather fabulous Summarit M lenses couldn't survive the perception of being *less* good (they really weren't). I suppose they'll sell a few but most who can afford it will buy a *real* Leica lens. Those on a budget will just buy the SIgma anyway.

Personally I would have made a compact but excellent 28-90 f4 Elmar. No IS. No variable aperture. Just compact for travelling. Don't think we needed another (rebranded even) standard 2.8 zoom).

Gordon

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[oldwino]

OK, so is this what we know?

1. Leica is releasing a 24-70 zoom lens (~$3500) that everyone is sure is a rebranded Sigma 24-70 zoom lens ($1050).

2. Leica has changed the barrel/rings, maybe for the better, and possibly the lens coatings (which I am sure Sigma would do for them; after all, Leica has had lenses built by others before to Leica's specs). 

3. One of these lenses is going to disappoint a lot of folks. The Sigma seems to punch a little above its price point, making it a "good deal". It is hard to image that whatever improvements Leica is making (barrel construction/coatings/firmware (maybe?)) are going to be worth that extra $2500. That's a very steep hill to climb. This lens will be scrutinized very closely. In this case the lens is going to need to be insanely good (somehow) to justify the price. 

4. It is possible that the optics are different too; in this case, the lens may be much better than the Sigma, and the price could be justified for what basically is a "different" lens. 

In any case, this is going to be an interesting product launch!