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Bob A

Summarex with M-ring; matching serial #

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I have a Summarex 85mm f1.5 lens that came with an M-ring that has a serial number which matches that of the lens. Is this in any way typical? I haven't seen any other serialised M-rings.

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... You'd have made better to post this in the Historical-Collection section... for me, is a very strange item... I think I red almost all the books about Leitz gear and don't remember to have noticed something like. The Summarex was discontinued, I think, just the same year of the introduction of M3... obvious that people would like to use it on M3, and the standard adapter for 90 fits well. I do not pretend to be a patented historician... but could you give some other info about ?

 

1) Are there other engravings (focal lenghts, code...) ?

2) WHICH frame does it brings up on a Leica M model ?

3) Has it the usual Leitz construction of the usual BM adapter (2 metals) ?

4) Can you post a picture ?

 

Very interesting item... a collector can get crazy for it...

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Hello Sr Bertolotti

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

the ring is marked on its face with Ernst Leitz GmbH Wetzlar Germany DBP, then the lens serial number, 1008005, and 9cm. the back of the ring has the number 12647 stamped on it. This side also has what looks like brass as the mating surface as well as the chrome-looking metal of the rest of the ring.

 

All the numbering and lettering appears to be factory-made; the letters and numbers are filled in with black.

 

The 90mm frame comes up when I install the lens on my M4.

 

No picture, sorry. I'm too old to get involved with digital.

 

I've never seen or heard of another like this. I'd certainly be interested in any information you might find about it.

 

So far as history is concerned, the lens and ring were purchased nearly 40 years ago in Washington DC from National Camera, from Mr Charlie Scheer, who was a collector and owner of the shop. It catered to many Washington area photojournalists, and was THE place to go for Leica equipment and repairs. The place is no longer in existence. I suspect Mr Scheer is also no longer with us.

 

The lens itself is in good condition, with a bit of pitting on the ring with the distance scale, which is in feet only (no meters). I do not know if this was standard for the lens.

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Very, VERY interesting, Bob...

 

- For the lens itself... nothing strange about the feet only scale : Summarex was provided in the two distinct versions (my item has a meter only scale).

 

- Anyway, a Summarex like yours, in good condition, is a collectible of significant value (and has a "nice" number too... collectors always appreciate "untrivial" numbers...

). Was produced in small numbers... a prestige lens... and there is also a superare BLACK version.

 

- If you use it on M4... you know well it's still a pleasant lens to use... and even on the new digital M8 it can stand on... in this forum, I posted a pair of portraits taken with it and my M8.

 

- Summarex is precious in itself but YOUR RING is, I think, really a rarity; as I said, I never heard of it: from your description it is very similar (and probably, mechanically identical) to the standard 90 mm adapter that had the code 14098 (ISBOO under the "old" Leitz coding system... I add a picture of it). But the code 12647 is unknown to me.. some other people maybe can know something about.

 

- The engraving of the lens s/n is surely a customization, but probably factory made... the lens itself was built PRIOR to the introduction of bayonet mount Leicas (the s/n is of 1952, the first BM Leica, M3, was introduced in 1954), so I can envision this story, based also on your info that items came from a very qualified dealer.

 

- Someone (Mr. X) had the lens in screw mount, used on a Leica screw mount body.

- In some year fromr 1954 on Mr. X buys a Leica M.

- Mr. X wants to use his wonderful Summarex on his new wonderful Leica M.

- He goes to a well known shop and ask : "send this lens to Wetzlar (or to Leitz NY lab), make a fine revision and make them add an adapter so that I can use it on my Leica M body with the 90 mm frame in the VF".

- And, as usual at that times, they do a well-done customization...

 

Sorry, a long post... I love too much to speak of Leitz collectibles...

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Thank you for your reply. I'm always interested in additional information on the subject.

 

I am surprised to think that the Leitz firm would go to the seemingly extreme step of stamping the lens serial number on the adapter, but that's what makes them what they are.

 

My ring is not stamped with any "M" designations the way yours is. I suspect it must be one of the earliest adapters made. Very interesting, and as you say, exciting for the Leica collectors.

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Hi Bob,

I'm always interested in additional information on the subject.
On March 16th, 1995 a Summarex bayonet-fit #1151361 was on sell at the auctions house "Christie's" London/Great-Britain.

I don't know how much it was sold, if. The estimated value on the auction catalogue is given at £500 - 800.

 

As you are not able to show us a picture of the ring, could it be that it look like this one ?

 

 

Note the "wall" on his side, not flat like the other picture from Luigi.

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Note the "wall" on his side, not flat like the other picture from Luigi....

eh eh Philippe, you'r right, but my picture has been "stolen" from a Dealer's Site....

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No, my ring looks nothing like the one with the "wall". It looks like the type usually seen, only with the markings as described.

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Hi Luigi,

Philippe, the ring you sent the pic of, can be the item that was "permanently" fixed to 90mm LTM Summicrons "originally factory converted" to BM ?
Many screw lenses have been modified to bayonet fit as the Leica M3 came out 1954.

I have i.e. a Summaron f/2.8 35mm in that case.

It is not "permanently fixed", but a very small screw held this ring in place. Take it off and unscrew the ring, and you get a screw lens again.

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Hi Luigi,Many screw lenses have been modified to bayonet fit as the Leica M3 came out 1954.

I have i.e. a Summaron f/2.8 35mm in that case.

It is not "permanently fixed", but a very small screw held this ring in place. Take it off and unscrew the ring, and you get a screw lens again.

Yep, I have 21 f4 and a Summaron 3,5 of this kind... I referred to it when I wrote "permanently"

...but I remember that Summicrons 90 had the adapter "fixed" not with screw, but with glue... and your picture looks a little like this...

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In the first time of M cameras Leitz engraved the number of the lens on the adapter ring.

Therefore it was necessary to send the lens to Wetzler. The meaning was, that the

ring should match exactly to lens.

 

str.

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Bob,

 

when Leitz/Leica first introduced the M39 to M-mount conversion rings, they advised customers to send their screw mount lens in for correct adjustment of the lens with the new adapter ring. Later on I believe it turned out that special adjustment was usually unnecessary, and so Leitz no longer advised as above.

 

I therefore believe that your lens was sent back to the factory (or to the official Leitz representative in your country) to match the lens with an M-mount conversion ring. If that was done in the early times of these rings, it made sense to put the lens number onto the ring to show that this very ring and the lens had been specifically matched to each other.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

 

P.S.: I just note that Stefan beat me by one minute, but was he is saying is in line with my thoughts!

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P.S.: I just note that Stefan beat me by one minute, but was he is saying is in line with my thoughts!

 

And I just note, that Andy is saying the same - but in better English.

 

st.

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Hello,

Luigi, if I remember well you have only the Vol. II Lenses, from James Lager,

here is what you can find in Vol. III Accessories.

Sincerely.

JC

 

http://perso.orange.fr/br.collection/sn.jpg

 

Good memory JC... thank you for posting : an issue I DID NOT KNOW AT ALL... and now I'm wondering if and where I could find a LTM lens + "personal" adapter...

 

Saluti

Luigi

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Luigi,

 

"and now I'm wondering if and where I could find a LTM lens + "personal" adapter..."

 

I suggest that you try to find the 2 volumes from Lager you are missing and you will be more accurate in your posting.

 

Tanti auguri

 

JC

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