Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}

[lct]

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17 hours ago, cboy said:

It feels the M system is lagging behind with tech that most of the competition already has...Rather is about time the M will get bsi. [...]

Been like this since the sixties... I currently use my M lenses on a 5 y/o BSI and IBIS camera with silent shutter... IBIS is perhaps too much on a compact camera but the M11 should have at least a silent shutter, a fast EVF and clean 6400 iso to interest me.

[SrMi]

38 minutes ago, lct said:

Been like this since the sixties... I currently use my M lenses on a 5 y/o BSI and IBIS camera with silent shutter... IBIS is perhaps too much on a compact camera but the M11 should have at least a silent shutter, a fast EVF and clean 6400 iso to interest me.

Leica M10-s are already pretty good at high ISOs when compared to other cameras with BSI sensors:

M10 vs. Z 7

I would not expect any significant improvement low-light when switching to a BSI sensor.

 

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[SrMi]

Would love to see a hybrid viewfinder, without degrading the rangefinder experience. This seems unlikely if a new Visoflex is also coming.

[lct]

41 minutes ago, SrMi said:

[...] I would not expect any significant improvement low-light when switching to a BSI sensor.

I'm no techie at all but i'd expect the M11 to do at least as well as my 5 y/o camera (M10 vs A7r2). 

[lct]

47 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Would love to see a hybrid viewfinder, without degrading the rangefinder experience. This seems unlikely if a new Visoflex is also coming.

When i referred to a fast EVF i thought of the rumored Visoflex but i don't hold my breath. Not "das Wesentliche" enough.

[SrMi]

3 minutes ago, lct said:

I'm no techie at all but i'd expect the M11 to do at least as well as my 5 y/o camera (M10 vs A7r2). 

Yes, Sony a7r2 does a bit better than all the latest cameras (M10-R, a7rIV, Z7II). IMO, the difference is insignificant (.5 stops according to PhotonsToPhotos). 

[John Ricard]

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On 4/14/2021 at 12:25 PM, LBJ2 said:

Thank you. I'm fine with as is. I didn't know it was considered a problem that needed to be fixed. But if that's what most customers are asking for, I will certainly not complain. 

It is a problem because if you lose the plate on a shoot you cannot take a photograph without it.  Basically, it never happens, but it’s a dumb design.  If they would just make a menu setting for, “Allow shutter release when bottom plate is not attached”, then I would have no problem with the plate.  But I don’t like the current implementation of the bottom plate.

[John Ricard]

20 hours ago, andyturk said:

Not that I want another digital M (have two already), but here's my wish-list:

1. Instantaneous wake-from-sleep
2. A battery with its own built-in USB charging port (i.e., doesn't require a separate charger)
3. IBIS or some kind of computational image stabilization
4. Fix the stupid Wifi implementation or remove it entirely
5. Every digital M should have a faux wind lever like the -D
6. Ditch the mechanical frame line lever on the front
7. Low ISO capability so you don't have to carry ND filters
8. A flash socket that's TTL compatible with Profoto

1) This is my number one problem with every Leica M (and I’ve written about it here and made a couple of videos on it on You Tube over the years).  I’m so disappointed that no one else is talking about this as a desired feature.  We need a responsive M with a super large buffer. Imagine an M where you could shoot dozens frames while you focus.  If you had the 75 Noctilux you could blaze through 20 FPS while you tweak focus and you’d have at least 1 correctly focused image.  I know shooting in that style is sacrilege to Leica shooters, but it would be very desirable to me.  I also want the camera to turn on instantly, I want instant image review, I want instant menu control, etc.  The overall sluggishness of the camera is my number one problem with the digital M cameras.

2) Charging the battery through USB is something I never thought I’d care about...until I got a camera that had the feature. It’s super useful.  It makes you feel like you have an unlimited battery because you know you can charge it at your friends house, on a professional job, in your car...you can buy what you need to charge it at any gas station.  It’s a real game changer.

4) The current WiFi is not perfect but it serves my needs ok.

6) Yes, get rid of the frame lever.  How someone could spend 9k on a camera but not have the skill to visualize what a 50mm lens will capture is beyond me.  Not to mention, the average Leica shooter only has 1 or 2 lenses to choose from, so why would you need to compare 3 different frame lines when you only have a 24mm and a 50mm (or whatever)?

7) I’d prefer a faster shutter speed over lower ISO, but either one would be ok.

8 I use my M9 and M10 with Profoto lights regularly, but since I’m in manual model, I’m ok with no TTL support.

[LBJ2]

36 minutes ago, John Ricard said:

It is a problem because if you lose the plate on a shoot you cannot take a photograph without it.  Basically, it never happens, but it’s a dumb design.  If they would just make a menu setting for, “Allow shutter release when bottom plate is not attached”, then I would have no problem with the plate.  But I don’t like the current implementation of the bottom plate.

I never heard about this bottom plate issue before. That's an eye-opener. I use the Leica Grip which would be very noticeable if I dropped it to the ground or forgot to reattach. But the original M10 bottom plate is very small. 

[andyturk]

26 minutes ago, John Ricard said:

2) Charging the battery through USB is something I never thought I’d care about...until I got a camera that had the feature. It’s super useful.  It makes you feel like you have an unlimited battery because you know you can charge it at your friends house, on a professional job, in your car...you can buy what you need to charge it at any gas station.  It’s a real game changer.

You mean the camera charges the battery (inside) via USB, or the battery itself has a USB receptacle?

[rramesh]

Would like to see some additional user programmable options, like a second programmable button on the frame lever, or a second scroll wheel.

[lct]

28 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

I never heard about this bottom plate issue before.

Lost one on a mountain 20+ years ago. Typical "das Wesentliche" design. The bottom plate will disappear with the arrival or weather sealing i guess but the real Leica man won't like that at all .

[david strachan]

51 minutes ago, andyturk said:

You mean the camera charges the battery (inside) via USB, or the battery itself has a USB receptacle?

Yes, Andy, it means to charge the battery whilst it is still in camera, via the USB cable.  I've had a couple of cameras which can be charged this way and it is a very handy charging option...no specific charger needed, just a USB cable to directly plug into the camera.

[Steven]

4 hours ago, John Ricard said:

6) Yes, get rid of the frame lever.  How someone could spend 9k on a camera but not have the skill to visualize what a 50mm lens will capture is beyond me.  Not to mention, the average Leica shooter only has 1 or 2 lenses to choose from, so why would you need to compare 3 different frame lines when you only have a 24mm and a 50mm (or whatever)?

I dont think you and us are talking about the same thing. We are referring to the faux advance lever that you can find on the M10D, that does not actually advance anything, since it's a digital camera, but that serves as a thumb rest. And a nice design. 

[Steven]

This actually reminds me that out of all the Leica things I bought and sold, the one I miss the most is the M10D. What a beauty of design. But I sold it for a reason, so let's not look back. Let's look ahead and hope that it will come on the M11. Unfortunately, I really doubt it. 

[Steven]

Oh, and one thing I would truly love is if that faux lever is not that "faux" and actually turns the camera on an off, INSTANTLY. 

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, Steven said:

Oh, and one thing I would truly love is if that faux lever is not that "faux" and actually turns the camera on an off, INSTANTLY. 

I agree Steven, but in the case of the M10-D and its "faux" lever design if a M11-D returns in a year or so I'd rather they returned the camera on/off switch to where it should have been all along, around the shutter release. In other words like the M7. There has to be a way too of doing all of that with a "normal" M11 and I hope that Leica does seriously consider it. As much as I thought that the "faux" winder was a rediculous anomaly prior to me owning a M10-D I now feel it was one of the best design moves that Leica made to the digital M and it deserves to be offered across all variants.

[stevieg]

42 minutes ago, petermullett said:

I agree Steven, but in the case of the M10-D and its "faux" lever design if a M11-D returns in a year or so I'd rather they returned the camera on/off switch to where it should have been all along, around the shutter release. In other words like the M7. There has to be a way too of doing all of that with a "normal" M11 and I hope that Leica does seriously consider it. As much as I thought that the "faux" winder was a rediculous anomaly prior to me owning a M10-D I now feel it was one of the best design moves that Leica made to the digital M and it deserves to be offered across all variants.

I would prefer this arrangement as well. When walking around carrying the camera, one can use the thumb rest as a support, but the camera needn't be switched on continuously. If the power switch is around the shutter release collar in direct proximity to one's index finger, it will be ready for pre-emptive "power-up" and shooting of that "decisive moment".

[lct]

6 hours ago, John Ricard said:

6) Yes, get rid of the frame lever.  How someone could spend 9k on a camera but not have the skill to visualize what a 50mm lens will capture is beyond me.

How someone using such cameras with a frame lever since the seventies cannot have the skills to visualize what his lenses can capture is probably beyond you too but i see one in my mirror every morning . I do miss a frame lever on my M240 and i would not buy an M11 without that. YMMV.

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[fisheess]

7 hours ago, John Ricard said:

6) Yes, get rid of the frame lever.  How someone could spend 9k on a camera but not have the skill to visualize what a 50mm lens will capture is beyond me.  Not to mention, the average Leica shooter only has 1 or 2 lenses to choose from, so why would you need to compare 3 different frame lines when you only have a 24mm and a 50mm (or whatever)?

I beg to differ. But in my opinion this can surely be improved. Since the frames are already lit by led, why not advance a little bit and make it smart. 

Many find the viewer cluttered because of the multiple framelines. As modern leica lenses have 6-bit coding, leica should be able to only show the relevant frame lines rather than two different at the same time.