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Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}


Al Brown

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1 minute ago, lct said:

Not sure what's the patent status of the M mount. I suppose it is in the public domain now but i may be wrong. BTW several camera brands have used the M mount already: Minolta, Cosina, Epson and Ricoh at least. Not sure if they asked Leica's permission for that but again i may be wrong.

M mount patent is still in effect. It’s been renewed many times. Everybody that used it payed for it.

Edited by jdlaing
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2 hours ago, jdlaing said:

They can’t make the body mount without permission. They can make all the lenses they want.

Leitz patented the M mount in 1950-51. In (West) Germany and the US.

https://leicarumors.com/2020/02/10/the-leica-m-mount-is-70-years-old-today.aspx/

In the US, patents expire after 20 years, and are not renewable. I don't know about other jurisdictions. (Actually, for a US patent issued 1861-1994, the expiration period was 17 years.) NB - patents are very different from copyrights ©.....!

The original film-M camera mount was used freely by Konica starting in 1999 (Konica Hexar RF), and Cosina beginning in 2002 (Voigtlander R2), and Epson beginning in 2004 (Epson R-D1, built by Cosina). And of course Minolta beginning in the 1970s - but they had a special partnership with Leitz (CL cameras/lenses, R system, etc.)

Leica did file for patents on the optical lens detection system (6-bit coding) for camera and lens mounts, and the aperture-in-use estimation system (comparing internal and external meter readings), both introduced on the M8, in 2007. So any non-Leica M-mount camera or lens using the 6-bit coding system would still be illegal until 2027.

Source - has a lot of other recent Leica Camera GMBH patent filings, for our enjoyment ;): https://patents.justia.com/assignee/leica-camera-ag

Method and apparatus for identifying interchangeable lenses

Patent number: 7848634, filed 2007, granted 2010

Abstract: A method and apparatus for identifying interchangeable lenses uses optical radiation. After the locking operation is performed, a defined optical radiation is directed from two or more, preferably six, light transmitters arranged in the support surface to reflecting or absorbing surfaces on the locking apparatus which are assigned to said light transmitters. The radiation returning from the respective reflecting/absorbing surfaces is picked up by light receivers arranged next to the light transmitters in the support surface. A binary coded signal for identifying the interchangeable lens is formed from the output signals of the light receivers.

Interchangeable lens with optically readable marking

Patent number: 7625114, filed 2007, granted 2009

Abstract: An interchangeable lens (1) with a locking device (2, 2?) for system cameras is described, wherein an orientation marking (4) for mounting the locking device (2, 2?) on the camera is provided at the end of the lens housing (3) facing the camera, and the contact surface (6) of the locking device (2, 2?) has a latching depression (8) at a distance from the orientation marking (4) counter to the direction (7) of rotation of the locking operation and the contact surface (6) contains at least two, preferably six, surface areas (10) which are situated next to one another in an isolated fashion at a distance from the latching depression (8) counter to the direction (7) of rotation within an angle segment of from 100° to 160°, preferably 110° to 150°, and can be detected individually by optical means.

Diaphragm value recognition

Patent number: 8269882, Filed 2007, granted 2012

Abstract: A method for determining the current camera aperture (working aperture) of lenses on digital cameras having a viewfinder eyepiece and internal exposure measurement through the lens wherein a further external exposure measurement is carried out past the lens and the value of the working aperture is determined from a reference table stored in the digital camera from the difference (BV) between the two measured exposure values BV(int) and BV(ext).

Edited by adan
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On 4/14/2021 at 10:34 PM, roma said:

I bet within a month people will already start complaining how M11's color is all wrong because of the new sensor tech, and this is wrong, and that's wrong, and how M10 is the best Leica ever made. All of this before a single M11 sees the light of day. We know the drill 😉 😀

 

I am one of those people who still think the M9 has the best colors even though I bought a M10 😁

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1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

After making custom profiles?

Jeff

Actually the reason I like the M9 colors isn't that it is technically accurate or anything. The colors I get from the M9 I feel has a bit of a blue hue to it, which gives a similar vibe to my favorite slide film Provia 100F.

Edited by santela
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Another idea for the M11-D, ... in addition to not having a rear LCD:

10. No SD card. When the internal image buffer is full, the camera must be "reloaded" by storing images elsewhere via Wi-Fi.

This will help re-create the film shooter's tension of, "I've got 6 shots left on this roll..." Similarly, ISO can only be adjusted before the first shot is taken.

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32 minutes ago, andyturk said:

Another idea for the M11-D, ... in addition to not having a rear LCD:

10. No SD card. When the internal image buffer is full, the camera must be "reloaded" by storing images elsewhere via Wi-Fi.

This will help re-create the film shooter's tension of, "I've got 6 shots left on this roll..." Similarly, ISO can only be adjusted before the first shot is taken.

Maybe not.

What's wrong with memory card as nearest equivalent to a film cartridge, what's wrong with variable ISO?

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Who needs variable ISO? I shoot nearly all my photos at base ISO (200) anyway. Of course I adjust aperture and shutter to get maximum light on the sensor when needed. But when the  pictures get underexposed, I just raise the exposure in post. It works fine with my M10, and I assume it will work even better with future sensors. 

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Just now, evikne said:

I don't use Auto ISO. It is locked at 200 all the time.

I’ve always been intrigued by this way of shooting. I understand there is no disadvantage compared to auto iso (capped at 1600, like me), but is there rang advantage to this ? 

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Just now, Steven said:

I’ve always been intrigued by this way of shooting. I understand there is no disadvantage compared to auto iso (capped at 1600, like me), but is there rang advantage to this ? 

I always shoot fully manual and calculate all settings in my head. With a fixed ISO, there is one less thing to think about. 

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15 minutes ago, andyturk said:

What's wrong with an LCD screen on the back? 😛

The screen makes the camera a little more bulky. And when I hold the camera, I don't like to rest my thumb on a glass plate. But I guess others have their own reasons. 

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1 hour ago, evikne said:

I always shoot fully manual and calculate all settings in my head. With a fixed ISO, there is one less thing to think about. 

I also prefer to shoot fully manual at a fixed ISO with M cameras.. and I usually change the ISO dial before turning the camera on depending on the "available light".

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1 hour ago, evikne said:

The screen makes the camera a little more bulky. And when I hold the camera, I don't like to rest my thumb on a glass plate. But I guess others have their own reasons. 

Well, all joking aside, you're right. The LCD only helps when you're looking at it. There's a certain jacket that I can't wear with my cameras because it's got zippers which (have already) scratched anything that comes near them. The LCD is the most vulnerable aspect of the M10 design.

I could probably live without the ability to review shots in the field (and do without Live View), but I'd really miss the ability to easily check battery status and exposure compensation without having to raise the camera to my face.

If the M11 were to add Bluetooth Low Energy and enable some kind of "instant on" settings mobile app for the camera, the need for a built-in LCD would be even less. But Leica's current Wi-Fi implementation is too cumbersome, so I never use it.

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9 minutes ago, andyturk said:

If the M11 were to add Bluetooth Low Energy and enable some kind of "instant on" settings mobile app for the camera, the need for a built-in LCD would be even less. But Leica's current Wi-Fi implementation is too cumbersome, so I never use it.

That's what I hope too.

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  • Fang changed the title to Leak image of M11
  • jaapv changed the title to Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}

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