Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}

[michaelbrenner]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

9 hours ago, Artin said:

My favourites are the ones that keep telling us how great the Sony, and Fuji systems are. I really don’t understand the comparison. I don’t want a gadget full of bells and whistles , I don’t care about auto focus , I have no use for GPS and wifi , I really have no use for 8k Video. 20 page menus. And lenses that are the size of bazookas. And I can not stand lenses that are fly by the wire. But most of all I really get jacked when somebody starts telling us about how great their I phone is as a Camera.  If you don’t want to slow down and enjoy the Art of photography, learn to use the equipment you have, and just want to press a button and take 20 frames a second of your dog running around in the back yard then the M system is not for you. Wildlife and sports photography, the M system is not for you. Paparazzi ? Not for you . You want to slow down , focus , frame , select your aperture shutter speed and walk around with just a few pounds of gear all day long and not come home with a backache.. hey welcome to the M 

Agreed, with a few additions.  As a famous and successful man once said, "You can do it."  Much is possible with the Leica M.

[wildlife] I've used the M for "wildlife" photography - the reason it is in quotes is my most memorable "wildlife" shoot was 1/4 mile away from the stage at a major event on a rainy day shooting handheld having to hold the Leica M240 above my head (over the heads of the crowd), standing in what was soon to become a slipper bog, and look at the screen - and I got the shot (M240 with 500mm F8(!) mirror R with a doubler or a 1.3x, don't remember).  Because I was using the doubler or the 1.3x, infinity was not at the end of the focus throw, so I had to do a whole bunch of focus bracketing, very challenging and a certain amount of guess work involved.  But I got the people on the stage with faces and expressions. 

[sports] As far as shots of quickly moving objects, such as sports, I've been able to do that, too.  The most memorable one was of a young boy (my nephew) tossing a lariat over the horns of a fake cow upon which his brother was sitting, with his father just behind him giving instructions and his mother sitting nearby observing, with all subjects in focus but with the lariat having just a bit of motion blur.  M240 with either a 28 or 21.  I've also shot a fair amount of rodeo getting the cowboy galloping after a steer and roping it, catching the rope just as it settles over the horns at full gallop.  M240 with a 50 or a 35 or a 90.

[street] Also, greatly enjoy spur-of-the-moment candid street photography (pretty much just like we saw in the earlier Bresson video - that's what prompted this post as it greatly reminded me of some of my street adventures).  Quite a lot of fun.  M240 with 21, 28, 35, 40(C), or 50.

[landscapes and birds and off road events] M240, 90 and 135.

[parties] M240 and 28 and 35/1.4 with and without off-camera flash.  Lots of folks moving around very quickly.  Candids.

[macro] M240 with EVF with 60R and 90MEM.  With bees captured in flight.

[hummingbirds] these are their own category.  M240 with 90.  That was a CHALLENGE but can be done, with wings stilled or slightly blurred.

[portraits] love to use classical Leica glass (50/1.5 and so on) to take dreamy portraits of ladies in period clothing using available natural light.

The point is like many on this board, I've gotten great enjoyment with a Leica M, much more than with my old Nikon F5 and later digital systems where I never was stimulated creatively like I am with Leica.  Don't let the "rangefinder" make a person think the Leica is in any way limited.  I've been able to get MANY shots with the Leica M that I never even considered with the Nikon F5 and digital SLR's, even with their predictive autofocus and all the other toys.

Also, certainly agreed about the no more backaches (Nikon gear required a large, heavy shoulder gear bag) as I can now carry all the equipment I need in a small Domke satchel that goes over the shoulder - it is compact enough to be mistaken for a "man purse" and so does not attract attention (M240+2 to 3 lenses).  I can open the flap (I've got the velcro taped so it does make a noise) grab the M240 take a quick picture (all settings including focus preset) and have it back hidden away many times before anyone is even aware of a picture being taken (many times I won't even raise the camera to my eye).  Like Bresson, I prefer the "stalking" method of street photography, attempting to capture the moment as it occurs wherever I might be without interrupting it, rather than standing at a particular location and waiting for something to come to me (never had the patience for that!).  

Love to roam about and experience "life", and Leica M is the perfect facilitator and muse.

As a postscript, the part that really cracks me up is all these folks who come to Leica boards to extol the perceived "virtues" of their non-Leica preferred brand while making "no-Leica" oaths.  Or those who go on about the Leica pricing and say they will "never" own a Leica.  What's the point?  I certainly have never gone to a Nikon or Fuji board and made such discourteous complaints (I actually quite enjoy both, but prefer Leica obviously, and have since sold all my Nikon and Fuji gear).  My suggestion for both types of complainers is to get an older Leica on eBay and some classic glass and try it out.  You can get a used M240 with a classic 50/1.5 for $4k or less on eBay.  Have it delivered to a non-sales tax area and go pick it up and have fun.  If you don't care for it, sell it on eBay. As used Leica equipment tends to appreciate in value, you'll likely end up with a net positive, even if you had to pay the sales tax.

As to why I have a M240 and not an M10 or M10P or M10R?  Well... on advice of Mr. Puts I decided, "If you are happy with the results of the M/240 or the MM2 it is best to skip the M10 release. " (https://photo.imx.nl/camera/styled-56/)  

And so I wait with baited breath, eagerly and with hope, for the M11 and M11P.  It is quite tragic that Mr. Puts no longer graces the Earth with his insightful observations and advice on Leica glass and cameras, but we can hope that when the M11 and M11P come out the reviews will be as detailed and honest and insightful, preferably by talented, experience photographers, not the usual gear-heads who may know the stats in and out but don't have the "feel".  Pictorial examples comparing the M11 / M11P to the M240 / M10P / M10R would be quite appreciated also.

Edited October 22, 2021 by michaelbrenner
spelling error "motion blue" to "motion blur", "predictive focus" to "predictive autofocus"

[Al Brown]

3 minutes ago, michaelbrenner said:

Agreed, with a few additions.  As a famous and successful man once said, "You can do it."  Much is possible with the Leica M.

[wildlife] I've used the M for "wildlife" photography - the reason it is in quotes is my most memorable "wildlife" shoot was 1/4 mile away from the stage at a major event on a rainy day shooting handheld having to hold the Leica M240 above my head (over the heads of the crowd), standing in what was soon to become a slipper bog, and look at the screen - and I got the shot (M240 with 500mm F8(!) mirror R with a doubler or a 1.3x, don't remember).  Because I was using the doubler or the 1.3x, infinity was not at the end of the focus throw, so I had to do a whole bunch of focus bracketing, very challenging and a certain amount of guess work involved.  But I got the people on the stage with faces and expressions. 

[sports] As far as shots of quickly moving objects, such as sports, I've been able to do that, too.  The most memorable one was of a young boy (my nephew) tossing a lariat over the horns of a fake cow upon which his brother was sitting, with his father just behind him giving instructions and his mother sitting nearby observing, with all subjects in focus but with the lariat having just a bit of motion blue.  M240 with either a 28 or 21.  I've also shot a fair amount of rodeo getting the cowboy galloping after a steer and roping it, catching the rope just as it settles over the horns at full gallop.  M240 with a 50 or a 35 or a 90.

[street] Also, greatly enjoy spur-of-the-moment candid street photography (pretty much just like we saw in the earlier Bresson video - that's what prompted this post as it greatly reminded me of some of my street adventures).  Quite a lot of fun.  M240 with 21, 28, 35, 40(C), or 50.

[landscapes and birds and off road events] M240, 90 and 135.

[parties] M240 and 28 and 35/1.4 with and without off-camera flash.  Lots of folks moving around very quickly.  Candids.

[macro] M240 with EVF with 60R and 90MEM.  With bees captured in flight.

[hummingbirds] these are their own category.  M240 with 90.  That was a CHALLENGE but can be done, with wings stilled or slightly blurred.

[portraits] love to use classical Leica glass (50/1.5 and so on) to take dreamy portraits of ladies in period clothing using available natural light.

The point is like many on this board, I've gotten great enjoyment with a Leica M, much more than with my old Nikon F5 and later digital systems where I never was stimulated creatively like I am with Leica.  Don't let the "rangefinder" make a person think the Leica is in any way limited.  I've been able to get MANY shots with the Leica M that I never even considered with the Nikon F5 and digital SLR's, even with their predictive focus and all the other toys.

Also, certainly agreed about the no more backaches (Nikon gear required a large, heavy shoulder gear bag) as I can now carry all the equipment I need in a small Domke satchel that goes over the shoulder - it is compact enough to be mistaken for a "man purse" and so does not attract attention (M240+2 to 3 lenses).  I can open the flap (I've got the velcro taped so it does make a noise) grab the M240 take a quick picture (all settings including focus preset) and have it back hidden away many times before anyone is even aware of a picture being taken (many times I won't even raise the camera to my eye).  Like Bresson, I prefer the "stalking" method of street photography, attempting to capture the moment as it occurs wherever I might be without interrupting it, rather than standing at a particular location and waiting for something to come to me (never had the patience for that!).  

Love to roam about and experience "life", and Leica M is the perfect facilitator and muse.

As a postscript, the part that really cracks me up is all these folks who come to Leica boards to extol the perceived "virtues" of their non-Leica preferred brand while making "no-Leica" oaths.  Or those who go on about the Leica pricing and say they will "never" own a Leica.  What's the point?  I certainly have never gone to a Nikon or Fuji board and made such discourteous complaints (I actually quite enjoy both, but prefer Leica obviously, and have since sold all my Nikon and Fuji gear).  My suggestion for both types of complainers is to get an older Leica on eBay and some classic glass and try it out.  You can get a used M240 with a classic 50/1.5 for $4k or less on eBay.  Have it delivered to a non-sales tax area and go pick it up and have fun.  If you don't care for it, sell it on eBay. As used Leica equipment tends to appreciate in value, you'll likely end up with a net positive, even if you had to pay the sales tax.

As to why I have a M240 and not an M10 or M10P or M10R?  Well... on advice of Mr. Puts I decided, "If you are happy with the results of the M/240 or the MM2 it is best to skip the M10 release. " (https://photo.imx.nl/camera/styled-56/)  

And so I wait with baited breath, eagerly and with hope, for the M11 and M11P.  It is quite tragic that Mr. Puts no longer graces the Earth with his insightful observations and advice on Leica glass and cameras, but we can hope that when the M11 and M11P come out the reviews will be as detailed and honest and insightful, preferably by talented, experience photographers, not the usual gear-heads who may know the stats in and out but don't have the "feel".  Pictorial examples comparing the M11 / M11P to the M240 / M10P / M10R would be quite appreciated also.

M240 surely had its downsides, several strong ones... I could not be happier with M10-R that replaced it. It is currently the best Leica M the company can offer... and in my daily professional work it shows! Shadow recovery not turning green & with banding, highlighs not being blown, buffer not being filled too quickly... I loved my M240 but I have NOT LOOKED BACK ONCE after the jump. Of course, in the words of Mr. Puts, YMMV. For many, many people the M240 is absolutely good enough. For me, I am spoilt, I am never again going back to that 2013 sensor.

 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[michaelbrenner]

1 minute ago, Al Brown said:

M240 surely had its downsides, several strong ones... I could not be happier with M10-R that replaced it. It is currently the best Leica M the company can offer... and in my daily professional work it shows! Shadow recovery not turning green & with banding, highlighs not being blown, buffer not being filled too quickly... I loved my M240 but I have NOT LOOKED BACK ONCE after the jump. Of course, in the words of Mr. Puts, YMMV. For many, many people the M240 is absolutely good enough. For me, I am spoilt, I am never again going back to that 2013 sensor.

 

Drooling...!  You just made the wait even more difficult... 8-)  My preference will be to wait for the M11P but... will I have the willpower???

[pgk]

44 minutes ago, michaelbrenner said:

Don't let the "rangefinder" make a person think the Leica is in any way limited

Much as I like my Leica's (my camera of choice) I use Sony A7 series cameras underwater. The rangefinder can be used in more ways than many think, but it is still limiting, as is the minimum focus of the system's lenses

[Steven]

1 minute ago, pgk said:

Much as I like my Leica's (my camera of choice) I use Sony A7 series cameras underwater. The rangefinder can be used in more ways than many think, but it is still limiting, as is the minimum focus of the system's lenses

Be careful, Artin might tell you that you're not a real photographer if you complain about the MFD. Because real men don't need anything. 

And I hope for you that HCB never took an underwater photo, cause if he did it and you need a Sony for that, you're not worthy of the M... 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Steven

[ianman]

4 hours ago, Steven said:

The photography of before is not the same as today. Embrace progress, don't settle for mediocre, be opened to new possibilities.

While it's undeniable that gear has evolved massively, can you really think that "photography of before" was mediocre? Anything mediocre is mostly found behind the camera, whatever the equiment used. Only a bad craftsman blames his tools.

This is not aimed at you @Steven, what you wrote seems to be a widely held view on this forum.

[Steven]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 minutes ago, ianman said:

While it's undeniable that gear has evolved massively, can you really think that "photography of before" was mediocre? Anything mediocre is mostly found behind the camera, whatever the equiment used. Only a bad craftsman blames his tools.

This is not aimed at you @Steven, what you wrote seems to be a widely held view on this forum.

To clarify, I'm not saying that photography of before was mediocre. I would not dare to say that LUF's idol/mascot (HCB) was mediocre. All I'm saying is that his camera's low light capabilities were mediocre compared to my SL2S, and that I'd rather my M11 has the same ISO performance as my SL2S than Robert Capa's Leica III mod D. 

No offence taken. Not from you, at least. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Steven

[ianman]

4 minutes ago, Steven said:

I would not dare to say that LUF's idol/mascot (HCB) was mediocre.

I'd like it to be known that I am not particularly fond of his work, I find it overrated. And I agree that it's pretty irritation to see him mentioned every other post.

Let the stoning begin.

[Steven]

5 minutes ago, ianman said:

I'd like it to be known that I am not particularly fond of his work, I find it overrated. And I agree that it's pretty irritation to see him mentioned every other post.

Let the stoning begin.

🤯 oh my lord how dare you !!!!!! 

All jokes aside, I agree with you. While I have the utmost respect for the two MAGNUM founders for daring to take a new art to the field, and for being the men of action that they were, I'm not a fan of either of their photography. I appreciate it, but like you, I find it totally overrated. As street photographers, I much prefer the work of people such as McCurry, Maier, and others. For war, it's hard to ignore Capa because he took place in the most important conflicts of my history. But others have more a sensibility that I enjoy more. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Steven

[Steven]

Just now, Artin said:

All this talk about HCB .... let me remind you guys that taking pictures in the streets of Europe in the late 1940s was a lot easier task, then doing it in downtown Manhattan today. A pack of gum or American cigarets would get you a lot more cooperation back then then these days. 
 Very good photography yes, but there are probably 100s that are just as good on this forum.   

Taking a photo of a Parisian in 2021 requires a lot of courage too. Parisians treat cameras pointed at them like if it were loaded guns. Talking about loaded guns... still in shock with the Alec Baldwin drama.... 

[Jeff S]

Some of the best low light photography was made long ago by folks like Kertesz and Brassai (in Paris), albeit b&w.  Photographers in those days found (and invented) new techniques to bring their creative vision to prints and books. (Kertesz taught Brassai his night shooting methods, prior to Brassai’s iconic book, Paris de Nuit).  
 

Jeff

[Al Brown]

Tons of famous photographers were just in the right place at the right time. FACT.
I respect all of them for it.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Al Brown

[Steven]

1 minute ago, Jeff S said:

Some of the best low light photography was made long ago by folks like Kertesz and Brassai (in Paris), albeit b&w.  Photographers in those days found (and invented) new techniques to bring their creative vision to prints and books. (Kertesz taught Brassai his night shooting methods, prior to Brassai’s iconic book, Paris de Nuit).  
 

Jeff

I don't like brassai's photography. Too dark and underexposed. He was famous cause he hung out with cool people. 

[SrMi]

Just now, Al Brown said:

Tons of famous photographers were just in the right place at the right time. FACT.

The best ones find the right place and right time. They anticipate, they do not react.

[Steven]

2 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Some of the best low light photography was made long ago by folks like Kertesz and Brassai (in Paris), albeit b&w.  Photographers in those days found (and invented) new techniques to bring their creative vision to prints and books. (Kertesz taught Brassai his night shooting methods, prior to Brassai’s iconic book, Paris de Nuit).  
 

Jeff

Jeff, PM me the best photo you've ever taken and I'll PM you some juicy details about the M11 that I can't post here. Deal ? 

[Steven]

1 minute ago, Al Brown said:

Tons of famous photographers were just in the right place at the right time. FACT.
I respect all of them for it.

Agreed. Lately, I've been very fond of Tim Herrington's war body of work. Attached, an example. 

Sadly, Tim was NOT in the right place, NOT at the right time. May he rest in peace. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Steven]

Just now, Artin said:

Hey what’s going on here I thought we were all in this together? 

Well, if Jeff posts a photo in public, I'll share the news in public ! 

[Jeff S]

Just now, Steven said:

I don't like brassai's photography. Too dark and underexposed. He was famous cause he hung out with cool people. 

The door is open to create your own low light work, to suit your own tastes, using current gear. BTW, Kertesz is one of my favorite photographers.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, Steven said:

Jeff, PM me the best photo you've ever taken and I'll PM you some juicy details about the M11 that I can't post here. Deal ? 

I couldn’t care less about knowing more about the M11. My gear works great. Don’t care about more MP. I’m not an early adopter, regardless.  No rush. This is just entertainment.

Jeff

Edited October 22, 2021 by Jeff S

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Guest Nowhereman]

Not everyone has to like HCB. But anyone who doesn't like his work, or feels it is overrated, would do well to look at his first book, The Decisive Moment. What is amazing about it is that all the images in it are so strong, many of them, as a group, represent the best ones he ever took; amazing that he reached such a high level in his first book. My feeling is that none of his subsequent books hit such a high note, and few of his other best photographs surpassed the quality of the best ones in this first book.

And clearly, there a lot of photographers that can be the sort of paragon that he is made out to be on photo forums. He is mentioned so often because people either don't have enough knowledge of great photographers, or little imagination. Nothwithstanding that, HCB is a great photographer, in my view.
_______________________________________
Frog Leaping photobook and Instagram