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Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}


Al Brown

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I'd like to withdraw the comment about the M10R's low light performance being garbage. I understand that it might have been too harsh, that it offended some who didn't understand/share my feeling, and that is in fact it was not constructive in the conversation. 

So what I meant is that by today's standard, I am not satisfied at all with the performance of my M10R in low light, and I am strongly convinced that unlike what some say, there is a very big room for improvement in the M11. 

One more thing to add: people kept commenting on the grain of the M10R at high ISO. But the truth is that it's not the grain that bothers me. Actually, I find it quite nice. What bothers me a lot is the colours. I think they start shifting to yellow/green very fast, and the image doesn't please me anymore. This is why I end converting to black and white. It doesnt mask the grain. It masks the color. 

To be even clearer, here are the ISO levels that I am confirmable with as far as my Leica digital cameras are concerned:

- On my Q2, I am confortable shooting at ISO 800. In case of an emergency, I'll go up to 1600. Beyond that, it's unacceptable to me. 

- On my M10R, I am confortable shooting at ISO 1600. In case of an emergency, I'll go up to 3200. Beyond that, it's unacceptable to me. 

- On my SL2-S, I am confortable shooting at ISO 12500. In case of an emergency, I'll go up to 2500. Beyond that, it's actually still acceptable to me.

So yes, once again, there is room for improvement as far as low light in concerned. The M10R is not garbage, but it's not the SL2S. 

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2 minutes ago, erniethemilk said:

It’s a great point. I keep telling myself I ‘can’t do’ landscape photography with my M10-P.  I need my Nikon Z, my filter kit for long exposures and my zoom lenses.  

I’ve recently picked up one of Brian Bowers books lined with pages of photographs shot on a variety of film M cameras.  I keep looking at the photographs he’s taken with a couple of different prime lenses and think yeah, course it’s do-able.
 

It’s me that’s the issue not the camera 😂

I'm sorry, but I don't think it's a great point. I never understood why if something was possible a hundred years ago mean we can't wish for progress. A hundred years ago, we could drive across our countries by car. Today, we can do it ten times faster, with AC and surround music blasting. I prefer. One day, my kids might be able to do it without holding the steering wheel, and no need to stop at the gas station. Even better. 

The point is, of course I can shoot a landscape at night at 400 ISO. Doesn't mean I can't wish for 2,8 Million ISO. The photography of before is not the same as today. Embrace progress, don't settle for mediocre, be opened to new possibilities.

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6 hours ago, Artin said:

My favourites are the ones that keep telling us how great the Sony ..... systems are. I really don’t understand the comparison.

If you read the post 2177 which says that the live view can be used on the M, then you are no longer discussing the rangefinder operation and using an M as an EVF camera which obviously invites comparisons. The M is IMO a quite simply best at being what it fundamentally is - a rangefinder. Adding functions to it will always be a compromise because it simply cannot compete with other cameras inherently designed to provide a plethora of functions (whether you like or want to use them or not). Much better to leave the M alone as a unique high quality rangefinder and not try to make it compete, or draw comparisons, with other cameras.

Edited by pgk
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Don't worry Steven Its coming soon you will have implants where you can take pictures by just blinking your eye at ISO 1.6 billion and if you move your head to the right you will be able to airdrop it to your computer at Instant speed ... wow I just can't wait on how easy that will be ... Boring not very challenging but hey great pictures instantly. 

Like this guy?? 

This setup doesn't look very comfortable, but it does have an APO lens with an f/0.95 maximum aperture...

 

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Edited by Herr Barnack
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Once i got into the M I fairly quickly retired, then cashed out of my non-M cameras (to fund a second M), the M suits me and I love using them.

That said though, just because camera XYZ has a different feature set that I or you or someone else doesn’t like to use as much/at all doesn’t suddenly make it a bad camera, just the wrong camera for ‘us’

And devil’s advocate… but the frame rate, GPS function and EVF spec of the M keeps getting faster, bigger and better so Leica must feel that some of ‘us’ do have some need for those things.

Oh and the start up is what it is.. but why the hell there’s some sort of deep sleep mode that offers no discernible advantage in wake up/start up time over turning the camera off is a bit naff in my opinion.. it just seems a bit shoddy somehow and not very premium.
 

OMWV

 

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6 minutes ago, Artin said:

let me give you guys the perfect example here .. you are invited to drive on the Circ De sart for 20 laps ... you have a choice on one side there is a brand new Tesla 2.9 seconds 0-100KM silent. air conditioned .. no shifting gears .. perfect breaks ... and a huge computer that will tell you the next turn and lower the speed for you to make the fastest turn safely possible 

 the other choice you have is a 1962 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder .. 12 cylinder loud manual transmission lousy breaks uncomfortable seats and wind in your hair .. 

 which one will you choose ? 

............the Series II Landrover with a wet dog on the passenger seat..

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8 minutes ago, Artin said:

let me give you guys the perfect example here .. you are invited to drive on the Circ De sart for 20 laps ... you have a choice on one side there is a brand new Tesla 2.9 seconds 0-100KM silent. air conditioned .. no shifting gears .. perfect breaks ... and a huge computer that will tell you the next turn and lower the speed for you to make the fastest turn safely possible 

 the other choice you have is a 1962 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder .. 12 cylinder loud manual transmission lousy breaks uncomfortable seats and wind in your hair .. 

 which one will you choose ? 

Would depend if I was being paid or perhaps in the running to win something I wanted based on my lap time…

For fun, well yeah the GT 

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1 hour ago, Artin said:

No the Leica M was perfect for him because he did not wish for 25000 ISO film or a camera that could fire 30 frames a second he did not not need GPS  he did not need 18-300 mm zoom 

He was a Photographer that relied on his skills knowledge for his images.

and by the way that video or any other that I have watched, I really do not see him sweating it out, If you think walking around in a Paris street with a 3 piece suit taking pictures of people buying groceries is hard work with a Leica M, try covering a civil War in Beirut....  

He certainly didn't have such technology available. I agree that particular video does not show his technique well. I've seen others that do, but there's also the evidence of his contact sheets, showing how many shots he got of the same or similar scenes in a short space of time before he got the one he wanted. Whatever else it was, it was not slow photography.

I am genuinely unsure about your experience, so if you've used a M or any other camera to cover war in Beirut I would be interested to hear about it. 

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11 minutes ago, Artin said:

let me give you guys the perfect example here .. you are invited to drive on the Circ De sart for 20 laps ... you have a choice on one side there is a brand new Tesla 2.9 seconds 0-100KM silent. air conditioned .. no shifting gears .. perfect breaks ... and a huge computer that will tell you the next turn and lower the speed for you to make the fastest turn safely possible 

 the other choice you have is a 1962 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder .. 12 cylinder loud manual transmission lousy breaks uncomfortable seats and wind in your hair .. 

 which one will you choose ? 

How many megapixels does the Ferrari have?

Edited by jdlaing
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21 minutes ago, Artin said:

let me give you guys the perfect example here .. you are invited to drive on the Circ De sart for 20 laps ... you have a choice on one side there is a brand new Tesla 2.9 seconds 0-100KM silent. air conditioned .. no shifting gears .. perfect breaks ... and a huge computer that will tell you the next turn and lower the speed for you to make the fastest turn safely possible 

 the other choice you have is a 1962 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder .. 12 cylinder loud manual transmission lousy breaks uncomfortable seats and wind in your hair .. 

 which one will you choose ? 

Which one has the faster start up time?

Edited by LocalHero1953
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10 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

He certainly didn't have such technology available. I agree that particular video does not show his technique well. I've seen others that do, but there's also the evidence of his contact sheets, showing how many shots he got of the same or similar scenes in a short space of time before he got the one he wanted. Whatever else it was, it was not slow photography.

I am genuinely unsure about your experience, so if you've used a M or any other camera to cover war in Beirut I would be interested to hear about it. 

for those that are interested in wondering how the hell we managed to work before digital entered our lives in this photographic game I heartily recommend the Magnum Book of Contact Sheets.........

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1 hour ago, Artin said:

Don't worry Steven Its coming soon you will have implants where you can take pictures by just blinking your eye at ISO 1.6 billion and if you move your head to the right you will be able to airdrop it to your computer at Instant speed ... wow I just can't wait on how easy that will be ... Boring not very challenging but hey great pictures instantly. 

 

Actually, that time is upon us. Blinking has never felt so good, though the implants still itch. Can't say more owing to the NDA.

Edited by Pixeleater
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3 hours ago, Steven said:

I'm sorry, but I don't think it's a great point. I never understood why if something was possible a hundred years ago mean we can't wish for progress. A hundred years ago, we could drive across our countries by car. Today, we can do it ten times faster, with AC and surround music blasting. I prefer. One day, my kids might be able to do it without holding the steering wheel, and no need to stop at the gas station. Even better. 

The point is, of course I can shoot a landscape at night at 400 ISO. Doesn't mean I can't wish for 2,8 Million ISO. The photography of before is not the same as today. Embrace progress, don't settle for mediocre, be opened to new possibilities.

Yes of course, progress is always good and some features are better than others. But not all & for me I find the photography of before is exactly the same as of today - at the end of the day whether it’s film or digital - the camera body is still just a light capturing box.
 

Personally for me if I really wished to embrace progress I’d have never bought a Leica, I’d have gone for a Sony!

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