Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}

[Simon644]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

7 minutes ago, RS-Colo said:

I would love for this thread to focus more on the new Visoflex. Or maybe we should spin a discussion off. In any case, I like the current one a lot. I am very comfortable with the rangefinder for most of my work. But I use the Visoflex for macro and whenever I use my 90mm or 135mm M lenses. I just find the rangefinder is not accurate enough. But I use my 28mm and 50mm lenses much more and then rangefinder is fine for me.

What would a new and improved Visoflex offer beside higher resolution and a different form-factor (e.g. smaller/larger, flip-up, flip-down, etc). Any new features?

I agree my eyes aren’t getting any better and I could do with something better than the current one. Love my M though.

[mmradman]

I like optical RF also external optical VF and when I use my M246 I rely on optical focusing and framing over 99% of time. Having said that it has limitations and my focusing eye fortunes will not last for ever. Once I became hooked on good quality EVF biggest limitation to optical VF, as I see it, is central focus patch and poor focus confirmation.  

As newer M lenses plus increased MP sensors require better and better focusing the RF as we know it will require some significant RF technological improvement, for fortunate minority who can fully utilise optical RF enjoy.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[jslabovitz]

When I bought my M10-D two years ago, I also bought the EVF 020... then kicked myself because it felt like a stupid add-on that I rarely used. But in the last 6 months or so, I've quite fallen in love with the little bugger.

I find I'm better at composing if I think in monochrome, rather than deciding to convert to B&W later. So I use the M10-D as a quasi-M10M by setting the camera to B&W JPEG+RAW mode, which makes the Visoflex display the image in monochrome! It turns it into a decent little B&W previewer. (I filter out the JPEGs before importing into Lightroom.)

I've learned to work around the relative slow turn-on of the EVF by half-pressing the shutter when I start to frame the image; by the time I've framed and focused through the rangefinder, the EVF has 'booted up' and I can quickly and accurately shift my eye up to the EVF to verify the framing and whether it's going to work in B&W at all. BTW, I rarely use the Visoflex for focusing. Focus peaking just doesn't work for me; it ain't how my brain works. I prefer the rangefinder, which seems much more accurate.

Having proclaimed my love for the Visoflex, there are certainly a few things I'd like to be improved:

• Make the diopter knob smaller and inset into the body, so I'm not constantly shifting the setting. I'm about to the point where I'm gonna tape down the knob...
• Toggle between B&W/color mode easily via one of the function buttons, without having to go into Fotos/menus to set the JPEG+RAW mode.
• Allow the GPS to be turned off completely (fine with me if done in the Fotos app, like the other settings on the M10-D). Maybe this would save enough battery that the EVF can turn on faster through some kind of standby mode.
• Optionally show the frame number instead of the shots remaining, in case I want to write down notes about a particular shot, and want to cross-reference after I import the files into Lightroom.
• Improve the physical coupling between the Visoflex and the camera (or at least add some adhesive tape) so the little guy doesn't keep sliding off the mount.
• Allow tilting to work only after sliding some sort of latch or key. I love the tilt, but it clicks out of position too easily, and I'm afraid the little plastic nub that locks it down is wearing out.
• Round off the way-too-pokey rear corners, so they don't keep jabbing me as I hold the camera.
• Don't hide the shutter dial as much. I've had a couple times when I didn't realize the shutter had shifted from A mode because it can't be seen without removing the Visoflex!

Edited April 20, 2021 by jslabovitz
clarification; additions

[John Ricard]

God how I hope the eventual EVF "M" camera retains the "M" designation.  I can't tell you how tired I am of people on this forum constantly telling us the German word that the M stands for.  We know.  Stop already.  So I'm hoping they make a non-rangefinder camera and still call it an M just so we can move on from people telling us what we already know.

[Sandokan]

The other way to achieve more accurate focusing is with a longer focus throw ... say 120 degrees instead of the usual 90. My Contax and Nikon RF are much easier to nail focus with than my M3

[evikne]

My next M will be a D, because I want the feeling of a screen-less back. Whether it's going to be an M11-D or an M12-D, that's not so important, I have no hurry. But I hope it will inherit the integrated fold-out thumb rest (that's what Leica calls it) from the M10-D. 

[mike3996]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

9 minutes ago, evikne said:

My next M will be a D, because I want the feeling of a screen-less back. Whether it's going to be an M11-D or an M12-D, that's not so important, I have no hurry. But I hope it will inherit the integrated fold-out thumb rest (that's what Leica calls it) from the M10-D. 

I just wish Leica made MD's in chrome.

[Steven]

57 minutes ago, evikne said:

My next M will be a D, because I want the feeling of a screen-less back. Whether it's going to be an M11-D or an M12-D, that's not so important, I have no hurry. But I hope it will inherit the integrated fold-out thumb rest (that's what Leica calls it) from the M10-D. 

Why wouldn't it be an M10D? Pretty great camera. I owned it for 2 months and loved it before selling it. 

[evikne]

Just now, Steven said:

Why wouldn't it be an M10D? Pretty great camera. I owned it for 2 months and loved it before selling it. 

If the future models don't have the thumb rest, I will consider an M10-D instead. But I think the current WiFi-connection is a bit too slow and cumbersome. I hope Leica will come up with a better solution in the future. 

[otto.f]

10 minutes ago, evikne said:

If the future models don't have the thumb rest, I will consider an M10-D instead. But I think the current WiFi-connection is a bit too slow and cumbersome. I hope Leica will come up with a better solution in the future. 

Yes a good wifi would be the only reason for me to upgrade from my M9. Leica did not at all succeed here thus far. But since an M11-D would probably cost towards € 9000,= I will pass. Although there’s a chance Leica will turn to a strategy which we see with iPhones and watches, where SE versions are offered. I would like a stripped version of around €5500, with Wifi, but no EVF, no screen. Back to the basics for the price  of a one month salary, as it was in the 60’s, more or less 😁.

Edited April 20, 2021 by otto.f

[Steven]

45 minutes ago, evikne said:

If the future models don't have the thumb rest, I will consider an M10-D instead. But I think the current WiFi-connection is a bit too slow and cumbersome. I hope Leica will come up with a better solution in the future. 

True. 

[Mahesh]

16 hours ago, mmradman said:

Strength, speaking like a true fanboy, is only on one side of the coin, flip it over.

By pondering to M die-hard crowd and sticking to M film camera physical size development of digital M in Leica's hands is constrained.  The Leica appreciation society chorus keeps repeating the mantra that Leica is only small company and can't invest much in digital R&D. I agree and it shows, substandard EVFs that came with M240 and M10 appear to be the hallmark of this.

 

Using lenses satisfactorily in a focusing range shorter than 0.7 meters will depend on good implementation of EVF.

Agree completely. Otherwise there wasn't anything wrong with the M9 apart from the corrosive sensors. One can happily shoot with an M9 and a 50 Lux all their life without looking anywhere else (or any other full frame camera released in the last few years).  Who needs an M11 or M10. In fact some prefer the M9.

However if one were to shoot beyond 'standard' focal lengths or with a noctilux or at close focus technology helps. 

For me personally, I do not get the heavy SL cameras and lenses. 

I would like to think Leica might release CL with a full frame sensor where one could adapt M lenses to their full potential since they don't want to move M away from 'M' by implementing EVF

Edited April 20, 2021 by Mahesh
Append a statement

[Ray Vonn]

1 hour ago, Mahesh said:

I would like to think Leica might release CL with a full frame sensor where one could adapt M lenses to their full potential since they don't want to move M away from 'M' by implementing EVF

Too good to be true, we can’t have that.

[rramesh]

Wonder what Leica would do if Sony were to release an A7M designed specifically for M lenses. 

[jdlaing]

1 hour ago, rramesh said:

Wonder what Leica would do if Sony were to release an A7M designed specifically for M lenses. 

Laugh. And then have a very short conversation with lawyers.

[lct]

Sony would use the M mount the same way as Cosina did for ZM and VM lenses i guess. 

[mmradman]

5 hours ago, Mahesh said:

Agree completely. Otherwise there wasn't anything wrong with the M9 apart from the corrosive sensors. One can happily shoot with an M9 and a 50 Lux all their life without looking anywhere else (or any other full frame camera released in the last few years).  Who needs an M11 or M10. In fact some prefer the M9.

However if one were to shoot beyond 'standard' focal lengths or with a noctilux or at close focus technology helps. 

For me personally, I do not get the heavy SL cameras and lenses. 

I would like to think Leica might release CL with a full frame sensor where one could adapt M lenses to their full potential since they don't want to move M away from 'M' by implementing EVF

I would love to see CL sized body fitted with full frame sensor even if using M lens required L-M adapter.

[mmradman]

1 hour ago, rramesh said:

Wonder what Leica would do if Sony were to release an A7M designed specifically for M lenses. 

Ignoring any legal issues which wouldn’t be many if such camera would not use 6-bit coding why would Sony do that? Sony have own system with own mount and can sell own brand camera and lenses.

[jdlaing]

9 hours ago, lct said:

Sony would use the M mount the same way as Cosina did for ZM and VM lenses i guess. 

They can’t make the body mount without permission. They can make all the lenses they want.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[lct]

1 minute ago, jdlaing said:

They can’t make the body mount without permission. They can make all the lenses they want.

Not sure what's the patent status of the M mount. I suppose it is in the public domain now but i may be wrong. BTW several camera brands have used the M mount already: Minolta, Cosina, Epson and Ricoh at least. Not sure if they asked Leica's permission for that but again i may be wrong.