LocalHero1953 Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5301 Posted January 12, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 43 minutes ago, Steven said: the best way I can describe them, is that they ressemble more my SL2S than my M10R, and for me that's an extraordinary thing. The first thing anyone has said that has started to get me interested in this camera............ 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 12, 2022 Posted January 12, 2022 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jon Warwick Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5302 Posted January 12, 2022 To gauge more what that means, how do images from the SL2S generally differ from the SL2 (I owned the latter), aside from obvious resolution? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5303 Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Steven said: Yes, that’s what I’m seeeing! The images look like they were taken with my SL2S. All the changes and improvements as a matter of fact are making this camera feel to me like a mini SL2S. .......with your earlier comments about Leica looking more seriously at putting in an internal EVF....... ......and the change in shutter & metering looking like a 'clearing of the decks' to make it EVF-ready...... .......and the willingness of Leica to take a more modern development route (electronic shutter, alloy body)...... I doubt I'll buy this M11. But I might buy the next one along (M11-E). Edited January 12, 2022 by LocalHero1953 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
threeseed Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5304 Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said: To gauge more what that means, how do images from the SL2S generally differ from the SL2 (I owned the latter), aside from obvious resolution? SL2-S is substantially better (2-3 stops) at high-ISO (6400+) performance and generally the noise at all ISOs is more film-like. You can see the chart here. Also apparently the SL2 would lose color accuracy at ISO 1600+. Edited January 12, 2022 by threeseed 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5305 Posted January 12, 2022 15 minutes ago, threeseed said: Especially with the black M11 as to whether the lighter weight and increased MP affects the percentage of blurry images. Oh, I forgot to say that. although there is a massive increase in the MP count, I seem to get much less motion blur in my images. I am told that the BSI sensor helps, but I don't care to know more. The technical side of things bore me. Less motion blur, fact. Thats it. 4 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidvanchu Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5306 Posted January 12, 2022 42 minutes ago, Steven said: Maybe even slower now, because when you turn it on you hear the live view thing, and it feels just slow and awkward. So the shutter does open and close every time you turn the camera on and off. This is what I was worried about. That’s an annoying quality of other mirrorless cameras. I hope they add back the off-the-curtain metering in the future, even if it is not as accurate, as an option. With the current (lack of) curtain metering hardware on the M11, I’d like to see the option of NO meter in the settings, keeping the shutter closed until a shot is taken. Kind of like a digital M-A setting 😂. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5307 Posted January 12, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 5 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said: To gauge more what that means, how do images from the SL2S generally differ from the SL2 (I owned the latter), aside from obvious resolution? I'm not sure if this will answer your question, but I returned my SL2 because I never got to like the images. The SL2S, however, is the best camera I have ever owned. I received my the day before it was announced, I remember cause it was my birthday, and I have loved it everyday since then. 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5308 Posted January 12, 2022 1 minute ago, davidvanchu said: So the shutter does open and close every time you turn the camera on and off. This is what I was worried about. That’s an annoying quality of other mirrorless cameras. I hope they add back the off-the-curtain metering in the future, even if it is not as accurate, as an option. There might be a way to turn this off, I don't know. But right out of the box, that's how it is. I don't like it either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5309 Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said: To gauge more what that means, how do images from the SL2S generally differ from the SL2 (I owned the latter), aside from obvious resolution? I owned the SL, SL2 (4 months) and now SL2-S since launch. The noise level is around 2 stops better than the SL2 no more. I set max AutoISO to 25000 on the SL2-S, instead of 12500 on the SL2, and the noise levels are still a bit better on the former. The noise pattern is more attractive. It's difficult to describe, but for the same level of noise I find it more film grain-like. The low light colours appear much better to me from the SL2-S: richer, more natural, easier to manage/edit, less ugly yellow at night. I am far less likely to convert a low light image to monochrome, which is my fall-back solution to bad low light colours. All this subjective and based on use, not measurement. Edited January 12, 2022 by LocalHero1953 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5310 Posted January 12, 2022 7 hours ago, SrMi said: My comment was related to your concern: "Huge battery drain and huge risk to the sensor." because the sensor is live all the time. According to everything we know now, M11 will have a shutter similar to other mirrorless cameras, not like M10's live view implementation. The primary battery drain with mirrorless cameras is EVF/LCD, not reading from the sensor. Even Leica SL2 cameras do not always have live-view active (EVF extended mode). I also do not see a huge risk for the sensor. Most mirrorless cameras have the sensor constantly exposed, even when shut off. I never heard that someone damaged the sensor because of the sensor being exposed. I have been using mirrorless cameras for many years and have never had any issues. The M11 battery is specified as 700 shots in rangefinder mode (CIPA standard). Nikon Z7 is rated for 420 shots (LCD), 360 shots (EVF). CIPA standard is measured in EVF mode so everyone should be very happy with battery performance. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGEND Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5311 Posted January 12, 2022 And how about shutter sound of new Leica M11... Is it the same as M10 - M10-P, similar, different? Or more like SL2-S because it's almost all the time open? Would like to know... Not that is that much of importance now. In one day all guessing and speculating will be over... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5312 Posted January 12, 2022 8 minutes ago, LEGEND said: Is it the same as M10 - M10-P, similar, different? Same. I have to admit that this week I was more focused on learning how to develop C41 colour film at home. It took all my time. But now that I'm out of this mess, I've been processing my photos in LR all morning, and WOW. I am so so impressed. The more I see them, the more I am convinced of this: I have in my hands a mini, 60MP SL2S. The images look almost identical to me. It creates an incredible amount of 3D pop, the colours are just great and need very little editing for my taste, and it's insane in low light. Actually, it's especially in the night images that you can tell the ressemblence with the SL2S. It has this very texture, for lack of a better word, that is so particular to the SL2S. I am so happy. 6 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5313 Posted January 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Steven said: Same. I have to admit that this week I was more focused on learning how to develop C41 colour film at home. It took all my time. But now that I'm out of this mess, I've been processing my photos in LR all morning, and WOW. I am so so impressed. The more I see them, the more I am convinced of this: I have in my hands a mini, 60MP SL2S. The images look almost identical to me. It creates an incredible amount of 3D pop, the colours are just great and need very little editing for my taste, and it's insane in low light. Actually, it's especially in the night images that you can tell the ressemblence with the SL2S. It has this very texture, for lack of a better word, that is so particular to the SL2S. I am so happy. The only question that matters, how does the lux pre asph 35mm renders in the M 11 VS previous Ms? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5314 Posted January 12, 2022 1 minute ago, shirubadanieru said: The only question that matters, how does the lux pre asph 35mm renders in the M 11 VS previous Ms? Better than all of them. It gives a second life. 😂 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5315 Posted January 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Steven said: Better than all of them. It gives a second life. 😂 No wayyyyy even better than the MM? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGEND Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5316 Posted January 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, Steven said: Same. I have to admit that this week I was more focused on learning how to develop C41 colour film at home. It took all my time. But now that I'm out of this mess, I've been processing my photos in LR all morning, and WOW. I am so so impressed. The more I see them, the more I am convinced of this: I have in my hands a mini, 60MP SL2S. The images look almost identical to me. It creates an incredible amount of 3D pop, the colours are just great and need very little editing for my taste, and it's insane in low light. Actually, it's especially in the night images that you can tell the ressemblence with the SL2S. It has this very texture, for lack of a better word, that is so particular to the SL2S. I am so happy. Thank you Steven for the answer. I love the shutter sound on M10-P. It is very special. I had M10-D and have menage to make photos of people that stand in fron of me only 1/2 a meter. They did' notice anything... I always loved that quality of Leica M cameras... It is super that the image quality is almost the same as SL2-S only with more MP. I love photos that my SL2-S produce and it is good thing that M11 will do the same... I only have two Leica M lenses, Summicron M 35 Asph. and Summilux M 50 Asph. but both of them work nice on my SL2-S. Why should they work different on M11... The day I purchase one Leica M11 will be a happy day for me... I am sure of that 100%. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJohn Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5317 Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Steven said: There might be a way to turn this off, I don't know. But right out of the box, that's how it is. I don't like it either. Wouldn't that imply that the shutter has to close, open and then close again to capture an image? I switched also to the M-system as the lag is significantly shorter than compared to a common DSLM. Most people won't notice this lag but capturing people it makes a real difference whether an eye lid is closed or the facial expression has changed slightly. If the shutter is always open, I believe you cannot break laws of physics, there has to be a higher delay than without as - leaving electronics aside, you have to close it first to reset the sensor. Having said that, I won't take a few shots in a row just to compensate that behaviour. The lag in releasing the shutter until the photograph was made is incredibly low and for photographing people in a tremendous way beneficial to the M-system. I am interested in how they are going to market around that thing. IMHO they shouldn't move too harsh away from the DNA of the M-system that is for me: the essence of photography and the uniqueness. Edited January 12, 2022 by BJohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5318 Posted January 12, 2022 18 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said: No wayyyyy even better than the MM? Ah, didn't include monochrome cameras. That's unfair. 13 minutes ago, LEGEND said: I had M10-D and have menage to make photos of people that stand in fron of me only 1/2 a meter. Well now you have electronic shutter. So they could hear you even less if you wish too! 14 minutes ago, LEGEND said: love photos that my SL2-S produce and it is good thing that M11 will do the same... Me too. I'm shocked how the results are similar. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5319 Posted January 12, 2022 8 minutes ago, BJohn said: I switched also to the M-system as the lag is significantly shorter than compared to a common DSLM When I switched away from the M system to a CL, this is the first thing I noticed. A much higher rate of 'misses' captured just after the optimum moment. It is the one thing that would make me go back to the M. If the M11 now has the same delay, it wont be on my shopping list. Strange that so few reviewers measure or even mention shutter lag today. Back in the early days of autofocus it was a common concern and Leica used to feature the very short lag of the film M as a selling feature. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 12, 2022 Share #5320 Posted January 12, 2022 Is it me or is it really calm in this thread this morning ? Calm before the storm ? Calm like the banks of the overflowed Seine this morning ? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 6 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/319914-leica-m11-your-next-camera-merged/?do=findComment&comment=4352013'>More sharing options...
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