Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}

[SrMi]

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The latest rumor addition is:

- 64GB internal memory

This feature probably accounts for its aging clientele that forgets to insert an SD card before leaving to photograph . Or is there no SD card slot at all?

[cirke]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

The latest rumor addition is:

- 64GB internal memory

This feature probably accounts for its aging clientele that forgets to insert an SD card before leaving to photograph . Or is there no SD card slot at all?

I'd love no SD at all but 64 gb is not enough

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[pgk]

9 hours ago, aristotle said:

Nothing specific, but on some airborne imaging systems that I've been involved with, the lenses are designed to be super accurate at resolving lower spatial frequencies but they tend to fall off of the cliff pretty quickly.  In these applications, the nature of the things being imaged and detected are well known in terms of limited high-spatial frequency content.  That's not particularly relevant here except to point out that system MTF is more than just a product of two scalar numbers, as might be interpreted by some from the quoted reference.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Airborne imaging systems for any sort of mapping use will require high resolving power (so will need to to resolve high spatial frequencies at a variety of wavelengths) whilst any other systems will simply want viable resolution/contrast for its purpose. MTF cascades are a useful tool with their known problems. (Caveat: I use to work doing MTF testing, a long time ago now).

[cboy]

7 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

Frankly, if I was worried about about anything lens related in light of even more MPx, it would be with RF accuracy and how well my lenses are calibrated.

If there was anything of actual benifit to photographers in the upcoming M11 it would of been increasing the rangefinder base length....sadly overlooked.

2 hours ago, cirke said:

I'd love no SD at all but 64 gb is not enough

It's basically for redundancy. As most pro cameras out there it wouldn't be classed as pro camera without redundancy. Now Leica Ms are now 'pro' cameras. A bit more is required to get into the big leagues Leica, but good effort 🤣

Edited December 7, 2021 by cboy

[mmradman]

4 hours ago, SrMi said:

The latest rumor addition is:

- 64GB internal memory

This feature probably accounts for its aging clientele that forgets to insert an SD card before leaving to photograph . Or is there no SD card slot at all?

In-built memory can go someway helping aging clientele however high MP count and RF focusing  is not best combination for aging eyesight - excluding of course one in hundred detractor who will say he doesn't have problem with RF focusing 😂.  

[pgk]

30 minutes ago, mmradman said:

In-built memory can go someway helping aging clientele however high MP count and RF focusing  is not best combination for aging eyesight - excluding of course one in hundred detractor who will say he doesn't have problem with RF focusing 😂.  

I can imagine the moaning that would ensue if the built in memory failed and the camera had to go back to Leica for repair.....

RF is what it is and when as accurately set up as possible it still relies on a degree of visual acuity.

[aristotle]

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1 hour ago, pgk said:

That makes no sense whatsoever. Airborne imaging systems for any sort of mapping use will require high resolving power (so will need to to resolve high spatial frequencies at a variety of wavelengths) whilst any other systems will simply want viable resolution/contrast for its purpose. MTF cascades are a useful tool with their known problems. (Caveat: I use to work doing MTF testing, a long time ago now).

It does seem counter intuitive.  The systems I'm talking about aren't used for mapping, but in any case, they do not require high spatial resolution of the lenses (or the system).  They do require, for the purposes of automated identification, extremely accurate representation of contrast differences between objects in the scene that have low spatial frequency content.  They are specialty designs and aren't used generally or widely.  When you look at the MTF curves in comparison with a lens (of the same focal length, same aperture, same conditions), the MTF curves cross when overlaid.

[pgk]

3 minutes ago, aristotle said:

It does seem counter intuitive.  The systems I'm talking about aren't used for mapping, but in any case, they do not require high spatial resolution of the lenses (or the system).  They do require, for the purposes of automated identification, extremely accurate representation of contrast differences between objects in the scene that have low spatial frequency content.  They are specialty designs and aren't used generally or widely.  When you look at the MTF curves in comparison with a lens (of the same focal length, same aperture, same conditions), the MTF curves cross when overlaid.

Tha makes more sense, especially for video lenses requiring high contrast but relatively low resolution. Tha said I can't see many people using such lenses on a Leica M.

[Guest Nowhereman]

sorry, error in posting — please delete.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Nowhereman

[mmradman]

1 hour ago, pgk said:

I can imagine the moaning that would ensue if the built in memory failed and the camera had to go back to Leica for repair.....

RF is what it is and when as accurately set up as possible it still relies on a degree of visual acuity.

I would imagine any high end camera marketed in 2021/2022 would have removable memory, M11 should be considered high end by price alone. 

The internal memory if present would be for convenience of those minority who occasionally forget to insert external memory card.  More I think about it it could be a red herring conveniently leaked to feed the rumour mill. 

[Tailwagger]

58 minutes ago, mmradman said:

I would imagine any high end camera marketed in 2021/2022 would have removable memory, M11 should be considered high end by price alone. 

The internal memory if present would be for convenience of those minority who occasionally forget to insert external memory card.  More I think about it it could be a red herring conveniently leaked to feed the rumour mill. 

We live in fear of the Zeiss ZX-1.  

[adan]

7 hours ago, mmradman said:

In-built memory can go someway helping aging clientele however high MP count and RF focusing  is not best combination for aging eyesight - excluding of course one in hundred detractor who will say he doesn't have problem with RF focusing 😂.  

You've finally touched on the unavoidable elephant in the room, which explains a lot of the - divergence - in thinking here.

When has the Leica M not been designed and engineered for the 1 in 100, in a variety of ways (price being the least of them)?

The other 99 are welcome to try to use it to the best of their ability, one way or another - or buy something else. But they should not "drive" the engineering significantly.

Get over it.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

BTW, to put the cap on a previous point of contention - Here's "the word" from the horse's mouth (Leica's own Intro page for the M-system - right now!) Note the phrase "in every Leica M."

Again - get over it.

[IkarusJohn]

Right!  Camera for Life!

[mmradman]

15 minutes ago, adan said:

You've finally touched on the unavoidable elephant in the room, which explains a lot of the - divergence - in thinking here.

When has the Leica M not been designed and engineered for the 1 in 100, in a variety of ways (price being the least of them)?

The other 99 are welcome to try to use it to the best of their ability, one way or another - or buy something else. But they should not "drive" the engineering significantly.

Get over it.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

BTW, to put the cap on a previous point of contention - Here's "the word" from the horse's mouth (Leica's own Intro page for the M-system - right now!) Note the phrase "in every Leica M."

Again - get over it.

Very clever, not.

If Leica really depended on 1 in 100 for business it would be gone along the Dodo long time ago.

[LocalHero1953]

23 minutes ago, mmradman said:

Very clever, not.

If Leica really depended on 1 in 100 for business it would be gone along the Dodo long time ago.

Back in 2011 Leica said it was aiming for 1% market share, when it actually had 0.15%. It's still there.

[mmradman]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Back in 2011 Leica said it was aiming for 1% market share, when it actually had 0.15%. It's still there.

Thanks for brining it up, if I remember correctly intent to grow from 0.15 towards 1% was stated at time of introduction of L mount.  Reference to 1 in 100 is about RF and not % of the camera market.

[Tailwagger]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Back in 2011 Leica said it was aiming for 1% market share, when it actually had 0.15%. It's still there.

Perhaps, but the market continues to shrink, which means if they are still at 0.15% they've virtually doubled sales per the numbers below.  OTOH looking at the chart, if we assume that in 2019, ILC sales were half that of P&Ss, so 7.5M, total, a 0.15% they would have shipped just over 11K units.  Something seems off to me, as I fail to see how they could survive producing half a dozen different models with so few sales. 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[bags27]

While analogue continues to gain interest:

https://petapixel.com/2021/12/06/new-study-confirms-there-is-still-demand-for-new-film-cameras/

Maybe Leica needs to spend more time on its original M concept?

 

 

[LocalHero1953]

Too lazy to search for the data.....who else produces a quality film camera these days other than Leica's MA and MP?

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[bags27]

15 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Too lazy to search for the data.....who else produces a quality film camera these days other than Leica's MA and MP?

Nikon just discontinued its wonderful F6. Except for my beloved Holgas and other logo-cameras, Leica has the field essentially to itself. Anyone who has deep enough pockets to commit to buying film may well be willing to buy a Leica. But if Leica continues to charge $5K+ for a body that just advances and keeps the film flat against the back, (okay for $100 more you can get a light meter in the M-P), why not just buy something used, like a terrific Nikon FE for that same $100? 

Digital cameras have shown that for a reasonable price you can get a lot more stuff in your camera. That means film cameras need to be priced at least relative to that consideration.

With Voigtlander knocking it out of the park with their M lenses, someone will come along with an M mount film camera--even a RF--for $3k or under that will be extremely tempting.