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Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}


Al Brown

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1 hour ago, Jk1002 said:

I am not able to go through the entire thread but the 60mp sensor keeps popping up. To me this does not make much sense wirh the old lenses and everything else around the M system.

Well, it's a rumor. It comes combined with a rumor that the M11 will allow "reduced-size" raw files, of 30 or 15 Mpixels.

Some believe this will be a "crop mode" like the Q/Q2.

I do not.

If real, I expect it will be something like Nikon/Canon's "SRaw/MRaw" formats - the entire 60 Mpixel picture is downsampled on the fly in the camera to 30 or 15 Mpixels - and then converted to .DNG format before writing to the SD card. A 21mm wide-angle image will remain a 21mm wide-angle image, just with fewer pixels, and thus a more compact file 1/2 to 1/4 the megabytes of a full 60 Mpixel file.

Ideally with much better implementation than Canon or Nikon use, so that all the controls available for a normal .DNG file (WB, contrast control, black/whites, sharpening (or not), color calibrations, etc. etc. etc.) will be fully functional.

Which would sidestep Sony's method of having three different cameras of different resolutions (A7S- A7- A7R) in a particularly "elegant" Leica way. ;)  No need for an M11-R (or M11-S)

But it is just one of those things we will have to wait to find out for real in 2022.

................

BTW - even a 60-year-old lens will look "better" on 60 Mpixels than on 40 or 30 or 24 Mpixels. Although not probably as good as a 2021 APO-Summicron. And certainly not necessarily enough to matter in all cases.

"Sensor outresolving the lens" is a myth. Sensors "degrade" any lens performance, but a higher-rez sensor will degrade any lens less than a lower-rez sensor, thus "lifting all boats."

"Degrade!!??"

Yep. The MTF captured in the final image is the System MTF, which is Lens MTF * Sensor MTF. Since all MTFs are "less than 1.00 (perfect rendering)" the System MTF is always less than either the lens or sensor MTF alone.

Take a lens with a lowly MTF of 0.20 at some place and aperture and put it on a sensor with "almost perfect" MTF of 0.99 - the System MTF comes out as 0.20 x 0.99 = .198 (which is worse than (lower than) the lens MTF of 0.20).

Edited by adan
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2 hours ago, adan said:

even a 60-year-old lens will look "better" on 60 Mpixels than on 40 or 30 or 24 Mpixels. Although not probably as good as a 2021 APO-Summicron. And certainly not necessarily enough to matter in all cases.

"Sensor outresolving the lens" is a myth. Sensors "degrade" any lens performance, but a higher-rez sensor will degrade any lens less than a lower-rez sensor, thus "lifting all boats."

 

should be set as a Sticky/pinned post 😇

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7 hours ago, Jeff S said:

That was an old post, since updated….


Jeff

Thanks Jeff. 

I maintain that for a long time, they studied the possibility of IBIS until they gave it up. 

Also, I'm pretty sure that July 23rd is the earliest reference on the internet of the 60MP sensor with three different shooting modes. 

Last but not least, there are still some things I havent told you about the M11, including the main thing it will be marketed around. I kept it for myself because some people in the thread have expressed the wish to not know everything and to keep space for surprise, which I will respect and honour. 

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Just done some calcs assuming that the sensor is 60mp, and on the basis that 24mp is more than enough for how I use images.
For carrying around, I typically take a wide zoom and a portrait lens: 11-23 + 60 for the CL
With this M11 and cropping I could get away with two prime lenses: 

  • 18mm: cropped to 28mm at 24mp
  • 50mm: cropped to 80mm at 24mp
Edited by LocalHero1953
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8 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Just done some calcs assuming that the sensor is 60mp, and on the basis that 24mp is more than enough for how I use images.
For carrying around, I typically take a wide zoom and a portrait lens: 11-23 + 60 for the CL
With this M11 and cropping I could get away with two prime lenses: 

  • 18mm: cropped to 28mm at 24mp
  • 50mm: cropped to 80mm at 24mp

hopefully its not under-powered with the old processor, ideally it should have a new, more powerful processor and double the buffer of the M10-R

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At first I wanted to wait for the M11 in my desire for a color Leica as a companion for my M10-M, but decided after the postponement to the M10-R (black painted) and am very happy with my decision, enough pixels, great dynamic range, the same battery, file size so that my computers can handle it perfectly, only the 020 viewfinder for wide angle and my R optics is not good enough. So if with the M11 also a new EVF is presented, which also works on my M10, then perfect. I don't see what else I need in the next few years, so the most I will invest in is additional lenses, if any.

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1 hour ago, Steven said:

I maintain that for a long time, they studied the possibility of IBIS until they gave it up. 

Last but not least, there are still some things I havent told you about the M11, including the main thing it will be marketed around. I kept it for myself because some people in the thread have expressed the wish to not know everything and to keep space for surprise, which I will respect and honour. 

Probably IBIS will be implemented in the next generation, when the technology present in the Nikon Z9 will trickle down to Leica and other brands, and the space freed by the mechanical shutter will provide room for IBIS and, hopefully, a built in EVF

For the people who don't want to have their surprise spoiled, why don't you write black on black? This way people can choose to highlight the text to read it

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  • Fang changed the title to Leak image of M11
  • jaapv changed the title to Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}

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