adan Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3101 Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, Jk1002 said: I am not able to go through the entire thread but the 60mp sensor keeps popping up. To me this does not make much sense wirh the old lenses and everything else around the M system. Well, it's a rumor. It comes combined with a rumor that the M11 will allow "reduced-size" raw files, of 30 or 15 Mpixels. Some believe this will be a "crop mode" like the Q/Q2. I do not. If real, I expect it will be something like Nikon/Canon's "SRaw/MRaw" formats - the entire 60 Mpixel picture is downsampled on the fly in the camera to 30 or 15 Mpixels - and then converted to .DNG format before writing to the SD card. A 21mm wide-angle image will remain a 21mm wide-angle image, just with fewer pixels, and thus a more compact file 1/2 to 1/4 the megabytes of a full 60 Mpixel file. Ideally with much better implementation than Canon or Nikon use, so that all the controls available for a normal .DNG file (WB, contrast control, black/whites, sharpening (or not), color calibrations, etc. etc. etc.) will be fully functional. Which would sidestep Sony's method of having three different cameras of different resolutions (A7S- A7- A7R) in a particularly "elegant" Leica way. No need for an M11-R (or M11-S) But it is just one of those things we will have to wait to find out for real in 2022. ................ BTW - even a 60-year-old lens will look "better" on 60 Mpixels than on 40 or 30 or 24 Mpixels. Although not probably as good as a 2021 APO-Summicron. And certainly not necessarily enough to matter in all cases. "Sensor outresolving the lens" is a myth. Sensors "degrade" any lens performance, but a higher-rez sensor will degrade any lens less than a lower-rez sensor, thus "lifting all boats." "Degrade!!??" Yep. The MTF captured in the final image is the System MTF, which is Lens MTF * Sensor MTF. Since all MTFs are "less than 1.00 (perfect rendering)" the System MTF is always less than either the lens or sensor MTF alone. Take a lens with a lowly MTF of 0.20 at some place and aperture and put it on a sensor with "almost perfect" MTF of 0.99 - the System MTF comes out as 0.20 x 0.99 = .198 (which is worse than (lower than) the lens MTF of 0.20). Edited December 3, 2021 by adan 7 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 3, 2021 Posted December 3, 2021 Hi adan, Take a look here Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
frame-it Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3102 Posted December 3, 2021 5 hours ago, bags27 said: Steve had hinted that the IQ would be a bit more filmic, perhaps a nod to M9 aesthetics. That would excite me: a manageable S--sort of. i thought you would say "An M-11 with a Foveon Sensor" 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3103 Posted December 3, 2021 2 hours ago, adan said: even a 60-year-old lens will look "better" on 60 Mpixels than on 40 or 30 or 24 Mpixels. Although not probably as good as a 2021 APO-Summicron. And certainly not necessarily enough to matter in all cases. "Sensor outresolving the lens" is a myth. Sensors "degrade" any lens performance, but a higher-rez sensor will degrade any lens less than a lower-rez sensor, thus "lifting all boats." should be set as a Sticky/pinned post 😇 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3104 Posted December 3, 2021 7 hours ago, Jeff S said: That was an old post, since updated…. Jeff Thanks Jeff. I maintain that for a long time, they studied the possibility of IBIS until they gave it up. Also, I'm pretty sure that July 23rd is the earliest reference on the internet of the 60MP sensor with three different shooting modes. Last but not least, there are still some things I havent told you about the M11, including the main thing it will be marketed around. I kept it for myself because some people in the thread have expressed the wish to not know everything and to keep space for surprise, which I will respect and honour. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3105 Posted December 3, 2021 2 hours ago, adan said: Some believe this will be a "crop mode" like the Q/Q2. I wonder what that new button is for 😁 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3106 Posted December 3, 2021 17 minutes ago, Steven said: I wonder what that new button is for 😁 Pop-up flash, using up parts from the Leica T. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3107 Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Just done some calcs assuming that the sensor is 60mp, and on the basis that 24mp is more than enough for how I use images. For carrying around, I typically take a wide zoom and a portrait lens: 11-23 + 60 for the CL With this M11 and cropping I could get away with two prime lenses: 18mm: cropped to 28mm at 24mp 50mm: cropped to 80mm at 24mp Edited December 3, 2021 by LocalHero1953 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3108 Posted December 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said: Just done some calcs assuming that the sensor is 60mp, and on the basis that 24mp is more than enough for how I use images. For carrying around, I typically take a wide zoom and a portrait lens: 11-23 + 60 for the CL With this M11 and cropping I could get away with two prime lenses: 18mm: cropped to 28mm at 24mp 50mm: cropped to 80mm at 24mp hopefully its not under-powered with the old processor, ideally it should have a new, more powerful processor and double the buffer of the M10-R Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Blanko Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3109 Posted December 3, 2021 Weil, the issue with cropping is that one must not forget the aperture. To have a wider angle lens that delivers - when cropped - photos like a Summilux 50 wide open at 1.4, this would require quite challenging large apertures... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3110 Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Steven said: I wonder what that new button is for 😁 hopefully to switch 'tween a hybrid Viewfinder and an Optical Rangefinder Edited December 3, 2021 by frame-it 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
strohscw Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3111 Posted December 3, 2021 At first I wanted to wait for the M11 in my desire for a color Leica as a companion for my M10-M, but decided after the postponement to the M10-R (black painted) and am very happy with my decision, enough pixels, great dynamic range, the same battery, file size so that my computers can handle it perfectly, only the 020 viewfinder for wide angle and my R optics is not good enough. So if with the M11 also a new EVF is presented, which also works on my M10, then perfect. I don't see what else I need in the next few years, so the most I will invest in is additional lenses, if any. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simone_DF Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3112 Posted December 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Steven said: I maintain that for a long time, they studied the possibility of IBIS until they gave it up. Last but not least, there are still some things I havent told you about the M11, including the main thing it will be marketed around. I kept it for myself because some people in the thread have expressed the wish to not know everything and to keep space for surprise, which I will respect and honour. Probably IBIS will be implemented in the next generation, when the technology present in the Nikon Z9 will trickle down to Leica and other brands, and the space freed by the mechanical shutter will provide room for IBIS and, hopefully, a built in EVF For the people who don't want to have their surprise spoiled, why don't you write black on black? This way people can choose to highlight the text to read it 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3113 Posted December 3, 2021 44 minutes ago, frame-it said: hopefully to switch 'tween a hybrid Viewfinder and an Optical Rangefinder Nope, and the answer is in my message. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anickpick Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3114 Posted December 3, 2021 In fact this button is a neurotransmitter that stimulates GAS whenever you touch it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3115 Posted December 3, 2021 16 minutes ago, Steven said: Nope, and the answer is in my message. i know, the crop mode Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3116 Posted December 3, 2021 1 minute ago, anickpick said: In fact this button is a neurotransmitter that stimulates GAS whenever you touch it. you mean by slowing down the camera and activating bugs in the firmware, so one feels like buying a new one ? that's a very Apple thing 😇 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3117 Posted December 3, 2021 24 minutes ago, Steven said: Nope, and the answer is in my message. Electronic shutter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3118 Posted December 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Steven said: ...Last but not least, there are still some things I havent told you about the M11, including the main thing it will be marketed around... The OVF r/f will focus down to 0.3m....... Philip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3119 Posted December 3, 2021 The crop mode idea would be a way to tell MILC users that they don't need an EVF-M anymore while the downsampling idea would tell them that Leica is not the way to go for anything more compact than the SL line so far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simone_DF Posted December 3, 2021 Share #3120 Posted December 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, lct said: The crop mode idea would be a way to tell MILC users that they don't need an EVF-M anymore Can you clarify? I can't see a correlation between crop mode and EVF Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.