Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}

[haikos]

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1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

All hell might break lose - some will announce with rage that they’re selling all their Leica gear and moving to Canada.

I found your last line so funny people around me asked what I had just read!

Good one!

[haikos]

10 minutes ago, Artin said:

I hope they all move to Canada first and then sell all their Gear. 

Same!

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[UliWer]

What was the name of the country where the M, which was abandoned in Germany, was restartet as "M4-2" ?

[IkarusJohn]

2 minutes ago, UliWer said:

What was the name of the country where the M, which was abandoned in Germany, was restartet as "M4-2" ?

I was making a tongue in cheek reference to all the Republicans who announced they would move to Canada if Obama was elected and brought in the Affordable Care Act, and to the Democrats who said the same when Trump was elected … just a joke …

[Al Brown]

7 hours ago, haikos said:

Out of curiosity, how many here are totally fine with the M10/R cameras and don't really feel an "upgrade" is needed?

Me me me.

[cboy]

21 hours ago, Artin said:

That is not true and certainly not what I see, 8 years ago when I brought this up in their forum there were hardly anyone that supported an ever would be a good solution for the M. But today it seems like there are a lot of supporters to this ..

I hope for all our sake then it won't take another 8 years for Leica to realise the impetus to action on the demand. 

Innovation would be nice from leica like an adoption of a digital rangefinder patch like Fuji with their digital splitprism. And not just the current focus peaking and punch in focus so at least the spirit of the rangefinder is still there.

But i guess they're on their way with the raw crop which will be used in a rangefinder evf. However  it needs to have electronic contacts with the lenses.

Heck why not phase detect system built in so at least an adaptor can plugged in to allow for AF for manual lenses down the road, and who knows native AF M lenses.

I just hope it's not another 8 years. Leicans are long in the tooth waiting.

[Tailwagger]

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3 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

The lenses give us a clue - no new lens wider than 21mm; the 24 Summilux and 18 SEM quietly dropped out of the catalogue; no zoom, despite the availability of live view; nothing longer than 135mm; the new lenses no wider 28mm or longer than 90mm; and new lenses that push the practicality of the OVF with depth of field wide open beyond the realistic capability of the OVF (by Leica’s own admission) and a close focusing distance shorter than the coupled rangefinder can cope with.

Not saying you're wrong, but I'd note the recent rumors of a new WATE.  It's possible that they've simply concluded that primes wider than 21mm simply aren't worth the trouble given low volumes.  The 24mm 'lux, for all its charms, has always been a bit of an odd duck given its 21 and 28mm stable mates. I never quite understood the rationale for triplets, more so today where, forgetting about any character differences, the added crop-ability of more MPx somewhat obviates the need for 24mm.  It's also worth observing that in the six years since the release of the SL, we've yet to see anything wider than 28mm, zoom excepted. Perhaps this is more a generic trend than an M specific one. 

3 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

All hell might break lose - some will announce with rage that they’re selling all their Leica gear and moving to Canada.

Hmmm.... has me wondering about the current exchange rate US. 😃

[IkarusJohn]

I suspect the lens limitation is driven by the best use of the optical rangefinder - 28-90 works; 21 and 135 with optional viewfinder …

I really don’t know how appealing a new W-A-T-E would be.  I know people who have them love them, but I really do prefer primes.  In my camera bag at the moment, I have my Monochrom with APO 50 Summicron & M10-D with 28 Summilux, and 21 & 75 Summilux on a back-to-back lens cap.  I don’t really like to crop to field of view - I straighten and crop to tidy up an image, rather than to change the apparent focal length.  That seems to surrender what Leica has worked so hard to provide.

I won’t be buying an M11.  I may buy another digital M once what I have is dead and beyond repair; and then it will be an Mn-D, “n” being something like 15.  I’m realistic enough to know that my gear is more than I need, and whatever Leica releases won’t change that fact. 

[haikos]

2 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

I was making a tongue in cheek reference to all the Republicans who announced they would move to Canada if Obama was elected and brought in the Affordable Care Act, and to the Democrats who said the same when Trump was elected … just a joke …

There were also the Democrats who swore the same thing when 45 arrived. Either example, the reference was gold!

[MrFriendly]

The intrinsic nature of Leica requires no alterations; but every brand must continuously review, challenge and adjust its areas of focus.  A company should never just be treading water, and thereby run the risk of being 'kodaked'.  Indeed, a strong brand does not ask the customer what he would like.  As Henry Ford put it, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said: faster horses."  Apple, too, had the fortitude to anticipate customer needs, which is reflect in the company's success, both then and now.  In the same vein, Leica have always foreseen what will be relevant within photography, and will continue to do so.  A 'me too' approach is never sufficient for a leading brand.  Lohstoter, Frank P.  "The Focus is on the Image."  Leica Fotografie International, Feb 2018, pp. 91.

An excerpt from an interview with Matthias Harsch, the CEO of Leica Camera AG.

[Studienkamera]

My only wish for the M11: Get rid of the weather function. With the M10, the moment I take it out of my camera bag, it starts raining. Once I return it to the bag, it stops raining.* I find that really annoying. If the M11 fixes this "feature", I will buy one. 

*Lots of evidence collected over this weekend in Melbourne.

[kinch123]

36 minutes ago, Studienkamera said:

My only wish for the M11: Get rid of the weather function. With the M10, the moment I take it out of my camera bag, it starts raining. Once I return it to the bag, it stops raining.* I find that really annoying. If the M11 fixes this "feature", I will buy one. 

*Lots of evidence collected over this weekend in Melbourne.

You'd do better to get rid of the Melbourne function.

[SrMi]

40 minutes ago, Studienkamera said:

My only wish for the M11: Get rid of the weather function. With the M10, the moment I take it out of my camera bag, it starts raining. Once I return it to the bag, it stops raining.* I find that really annoying. If the M11 fixes this "feature", I will buy one. 

*Lots of evidence collected over this weekend in Melbourne.

Unfortunately, they removed that functionality in cameras shipped to California :(.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, haikos said:

There were also the Democrats who swore the same thing when 45 arrived. 

He already wrote that, in your quote.

Jeff

[steveBK]

2 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

I suspect the lens limitation is driven by the best use of the optical rangefinder - 28-90 works; 21 and 135 with optional viewfinder …

I really don’t know how appealing a new W-A-T-E would be.  I know people who have them love them, but I really do prefer primes.  In my camera bag at the moment, I have my Monochrom with APO 50 Summicron & M10-D with 28 Summilux, and 21 & 75 Summilux on a back-to-back lens cap.  I don’t really like to crop to field of view - I straighten and crop to tidy up an image, rather than to change the apparent focal length.  That seems to surrender what Leica has worked so hard to provide.

I won’t be buying an M11.  I may buy another digital M once what I have is dead and beyond repair; and then it will be an Mn-D, “n” being something like 15.  I’m realistic enough to know that my gear is more than I need, and whatever Leica releases won’t change that fact. 

I’ve contemplated the M-A-T-E multiple times, but always felt the W-A-T-E would be kind of “too many wides” for me.

I ended up getting a lens I lusted for over 10 years - the Konica Hexanon Dual 21-35 which is sort of a best of both worlds.

With digital and live view, it would be interesting to see Leica offer a multi-focal length lens with features like closer focus, wider range, and actual “zoom” usable intermediate focal lengths.

[lct]

29 minutes ago, steveBK said:

I’ve contemplated the M-A-T-E multiple times, but always felt the W-A-T-E would be kind of “too many wides” for me.

I ended up getting a lens I lusted for over 10 years - the Konica Hexanon Dual 21-35 which is sort of a best of both worlds.

With digital and live view, it would be interesting to see Leica offer a multi-focal length lens with features like closer focus, wider range, and actual “zoom” usable intermediate focal lengths.

Contrary to the MATE, which is a multi focal length lens indeed, the WATE is a true zoom lens or at least it works as such on mirrorless cameras. Also the WATE can focus at 0.5m. Perfect companion to a mirrorless M .

[Simone_DF]

11 hours ago, erniethemilk said:

Too much dissipation of the M line and it eats into other products in the range. 

Which line?

The SL has autofocus and it's a brick, so apples and oranges

The Q has a fixed lens

The CL line is dead and won't be continued

[LocalHero1953]

7 hours ago, MrFriendly said:

As Henry Ford put it, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said: faster horses." 

Good quote. It should be pinned to the top of all threads starting "What do you want in the next #######?"

There's also a Simpsons episode where Homer is given the chance to design a new car. He nearly bankrupts the car company.

[ianman]

10 hours ago, cboy said:

so at least the spirit of the rangefinder is still there.

This is what is meant by compromise. Bad for everyone… first of all bad for Leica.

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Hallo,

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[pgk]

22 hours ago, lct said:

 RF accuracy is based on average circle of confusion values corresponding to A4 prints viewed at arms length more or less. Don't hesitate to correct me ....

OK. RF accuracy has got nothing whatsoever to do with circle of confusion. Happy now?😊