LBJ2 Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2861 Posted November 11, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) For those of you that continue to dream of an M EVF camera on these threads, please grab the SL2 or SL2-S + Leica M-L adapter. Experience IBIS, EVF for your M lenses and never pick up an ND filter again for your Noctilux lenses, for wide open shooting all day long! Using both SL2, M10-R, I can tell you the SL body size is really not that much larger than my M10-R with M10 Grip. SL is a heavier camera but that weight disappears quickly once you get used to it, particularly with tiny M lenses. I also use the incredibly comfortable, lightweight, barely there w/ neoprene neck pad SL2 strap that came in the SL2 box and SL2 + M lenses = a cake walk. Seriously if so many of you are pining away for an M with EVF and IBIS just do it. 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 11, 2021 Posted November 11, 2021 Hi LBJ2, Take a look here Leica M11 - your next camera? {MERGED}. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
adan Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2862 Posted November 11, 2021 (edited) At this point: 1) the discussion has little to do with the M11 - which we already know will not have a built-in EVF, but probably will have an improved accessory-shoe EVF. 2) many of the posts are 1-line "bumper-stickers," not serious, well-organized cases for, or against, an Mevf. And repetitive. And often about minutiae ("someone is wrong on the Internet" about this or that minor point. ). 3) Why don't those who want an EVF-M ask the mods to set up a poll (a serious one, that produces bar-graphs), along the lines of: Would you buy an M-mount Leica body that exactly replicates the size, weight and form-factor of the classic rangefinder M, but with an EVF in place of the optical RF/VF? - definitely - probably - maybe - not interested at all - only as a back-up camera to a classic rangefinder M - only if it had a hybrid RF/EVF How good must the EVF be? - better than anything Leica currently offers. - at least as good as the current SL2/SL2-S EVF (6 megapixels) - at least as good as the Q2 EVF (3.62 megapixels) - at least as good as the most current Visoflex accessory EVF (2.4 megapixels) - at least a good as the CL EVF (2.36 megapixels) How large an eyepiece would you accept for an EVF-M - no larger than the current M10 eyepiece (19mm outside diameter) - no larger than the CL eyepiece (xx? mm ) - no larger than the Q2 eyepiece (xx? mm) - no larger than the SL-series eyepiece (xx? mm) - no larger than the most current Visoflex EVF eyepiece (xx? mm) What price would you expect to pay for such a camera? - €3500-€4500 - €4500-€5500 - €5500-€6500 - €6500-€7500 - €7500-€8500 - €8500-€9500 What price would you be willing to pay for such a camera? - €3500-€4500 - €4500-€5500 - €5500-€6500 - €6500-€7500 - €7500-€8500 - €8500-€9500 That would provide Leica with some hard numbers on which to decide if they can sell enough EVF-Ms, and for how much, and whether it would be economically viable and worth the R&D investment. As well as guidance on preferred specs. As well as a dedicated place to take that part of the discussion (I'm sure it is not going away, M11 or no M11). (Feel free, of course, to edit my wording before posting). Edited November 11, 2021 by adan 6 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2863 Posted November 11, 2021 2 hours ago, jaapv said: Umm.. The SL series has parabolic microlenses to accommodate M lenses. Which noticeably underperform those of the M as I've demonstrated when shooting them side by side. Personally, I don't want to pay $4K+ for a non-telecentric design and knowingly give any performance whatsoever. I can pay a tenth that to get lenses that aren't that sharp in the corners to begin with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ2 Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2864 Posted November 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tailwagger said: Which noticeably underperform those of the M as I've demonstrated when shooting them side by side. Personally, I don't want to pay $4K+ for a non-telecentric design and knowingly give any performance whatsoever. I can pay a tenth that to get lenses that aren't that sharp in the corners to begin with. At least with the M lenses designed for digital I use, I do agree that some lenses can be slightly less optimal on the SL2 sensor than on the M as they should be! We pay a mighty premium for those M cameras and lenses and I do enjoy my M10-R very much BTW. But for those that feel they need/want EVF and IBIS to get out there again...I say the 95% solution is sitting right in front of you in the SL2-SL2-S 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2865 Posted November 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, Tailwagger said: Which noticeably underperform those of the M as I've demonstrated when shooting them side by side. Personally, I don't want to pay $4K+ for a non-telecentric design and knowingly give any performance whatsoever. I can pay a tenth that to get lenses that aren't that sharp in the corners to begin with. +1. A compact L camera would compete with the best mirrorless cameras of the market including Panasonic selling similar L lenses for a fraction of the price... The M mount protects Leica against that. It is also the only one providing the best compatibility with M lenses instead of a jack of all trades camera causing smearing and soft corners with M wides like 21/3.4 and 28/2. Let alone that auto image magnification would be impossible with it instead of being so easy on an M mount camera. Makes little sense to me but it would save me some money unless it proves significantly better than my Kolari mod A7r2. Would have to have IBIS, silent shutter and autofocus adapters for M lenses in a compact package, irrespective of price. Hard task... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2866 Posted November 11, 2021 29 minutes ago, LBJ2 said: For those of you that continue to dream of an M EVF camera on these threads, please grab the SL2 or SL2-S + Leica M-L adapter. And many of us have already answered 100 times : no thanks ! We do not want a SL2 for M lenses , I had a SL2 and sold it , I don’t like it at all 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ2 Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2867 Posted November 11, 2021 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 10 minutes ago, cirke said: And many of us have already answered 100 times : no thanks ! We do not want a SL2 for M lenses , I had a SL2 and sold it , I don’t like it at all 👍 Edited November 11, 2021 by LBJ2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2868 Posted November 11, 2021 Id say if you have the money to buy a SL2 + lenses get a Hasselblad instead , It's another level 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2869 Posted November 11, 2021 5 minutes ago, lct said: +1. A compact L camera would compete with the best mirrorless cameras of the market including Panasonic selling similar L lenses for a fraction of the price... Indeed. The new Pano primes appear to be making a pretty good case for themselves both in terms of mass and performance. I'd love to see an actual side by side of any of the M 24s against the Pano and Sigma 24 on the SL2. popcorn-1 (dragged).tiff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick in CO Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2870 Posted November 11, 2021 35 minutes ago, lct said: +1. A compact L camera would compete with the best mirrorless cameras of the market including Panasonic selling similar L lenses for a fraction of the price... Would have to have IBIS, silent shutter and autofocus adapters for M lenses in a compact package, irrespective of price. Hard task... Are we not talking, except that it would be APS-C, of a CL2? I doubt Leica would want to market three EVF full-frame cameras, four if an M11 has built-in EVF. I agree with Adan, an improved accessory EVF for the M-series, and TL2, might be the best of both worlds? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2871 Posted November 11, 2021 34 minutes ago, cirke said: Id say if you have the money to buy a SL2 + lenses get a Hasselblad instead , It's another level I own SL2 and X1D II. They are completely different type of cameras, both great and both worth having. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2872 Posted November 11, 2021 12 minutes ago, Rick in CO said: Are we not talking, except that it would be APS-C, of a CL2? APS-C is a complete non-starter AFAIC. If I were willing to go that route, I'd likely have already bought a X-Pro or Z fc given the corners aren't largely in play and the pricing is minimally a quarter of what Leica would charge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2873 Posted November 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, SrMi said: I own SL2 and X1D II. They are completely different type of cameras, both great and both worth having. +1. There are some tasks where they can reasonably overlap, but each has its own strengths that are lacking in the other. Even if one spent all their time in that shared space, the larger issue, where you forced to choose between the two, is that the 'blad ecosystem is extremely thin by comparison. But no doubt the X1D is a lovely camera and my favorite of all time, even over the M, in terms of ergo and feel in the hand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBJ2 Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2874 Posted November 11, 2021 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2875 Posted November 11, 2021 9 hours ago, Malcolm Kays said: It is well past 11am on 11/11 so where is the M11? I'm pretty sure I told you guys 1 month ago it would not be announced. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2876 Posted November 11, 2021 To continue the Armistice Day thread diversion just a little longer....... Not all education in the UK is quite as complete as one might expect. This is what happened in my granddaughter's class (she is 6). "Today ####'s teacher forgot the eleven am silence so when the bell went she thought it was a lockdown drill and got all the children under the tables. Then realised and tried to regroup. ####'s version: 'we had to put the coat rack across the door and sit under the table and think about all the people that died in the war'." 🤪 What they learn at that age will stay with them for ever. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ricard Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2877 Posted November 11, 2021 1 hour ago, cirke said: And many of us have already answered 100 times : no thanks ! We do not want a SL2 for M lenses , I had a SL2 and sold it , I don’t like it at all Can someone please post that you can't make an EVF M camera because the M stands for the German word for rangefinder. I know you guys like to point that out endlessly here and no one has done so in a couple of weeks. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2878 Posted November 11, 2021 1 hour ago, cirke said: Id say if you have the money to buy a SL2 + lenses get a Hasselblad instead , It's another level No thanks. I had the choice and the SL2 with SL 24-90 and 90-280 had no peer in the Hasselblad world. And for a compact body with primes, I far prefer an M to an X1Dii. Significantly different tools and user experiences. That’s without considering the almost non-existent Hasselblad dealer/service network in my area, and concerns about Hasselblad’s commitment to their platforms. At least we know an M11 is on the way (supposedly the thread topic). Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelG Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2879 Posted November 11, 2021 13 minutes ago, John Ricard said: Can someone please post that you can't make an EVF M camera because the M stands for the German word for rangefinder. I know you guys like to point that out endlessly here and no one has done so in a couple of weeks. Well it actually means combined rangefinder and viewfinder…🤫 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 11, 2021 Share #2880 Posted November 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Steven said: I'm pretty sure I told you guys 1 month ago it would not be announced. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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