Jump to content

Under/overexposure setting and display in viewfinder


Martin B

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Since I find that it is beneficial to have the M 240 set for a bit of underexposure to avoid clipping highlights, I set my camera to -0.3 stops underexposure in the menu. The only issue is that the camera is always showing the -0.3 in the display before it shows me the arrow to expose with this setting correctly. I find it a bit annoying since the couple seconds delay by having the -0.3 EV displayed slows down how quickly I can take a picture. Is there a way to avoid that the under/overexposure is displayed in the viewfinder other than the obvious to avoid setting an over/underexposure in the camera menu and instead applying it each time when setting the exposure manually? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it delays shooting, it's just showing you some info that some may (in your case may not) find useful.

It also shows you the ISO when you first switch it on.

But you've answered you're own question really

11 minutes ago, Martin B said:

avoid setting an over/underexposure in the camera menu and instead applying it each time when setting the exposure manually

^--This.

There will be days and times when you'd rather have +0.3 or more or less than -0.3 EV.

Over the course of your life with the camera you may find that running a perpetual -0.3EV breaks as many pictures as it saves...

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

I don't think it delays shooting, it's just showing you some info that some may (in your case may not) find useful.

It also shows you the ISO when you first switch it on.

But you've answered you're own question really

^--This.

There will be days and times when you'd rather have +0.3 or more or less than -0.3 EV.

Over the course of your life with the camera you may find that running a perpetual -0.3EV breaks as many pictures as it saves...

 

 

 

The ISO display only shows once the camera is turned on. But there is a significant delay by having it displayed in the viewfinder when the exposure deviates from the standard +/- 0 setting since it is displayed every time when trying to set the exposure by half-clicking the shutter release button. I have not once found a situation that I had to have the camera overexpose - issue with the M 240 sensor is that it easily clips highlights but can recover shadows quite well. So it is always better to underexpose a bit when taking any photo - I can tell after shooting now > 3000 photos with my camera since I got it last year. 

Having it 1/3rd stop underexposed is a benefit to avoid the easily clipped highlights with this sensor! - question is if there is a way to disable the display of showing under/overexposure in the viewfinder. I read between your lines that there isn't a way. 

Edited by Martin B
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have always set the over / under individually each time but also make a point of setting the camera back to “neutral” too. Perhaps the latter is overkill and slows things down but I want to make sure I do not automatically shoot with the previous settings when there is a location / time gap between shots. Partially that is why I left Fuji, there were too many items to fiddle with!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Marc B-C said:

I have always set the over / under individually each time but also make a point of setting the camera back to “neutral” too. Perhaps the latter is overkill and slows things down but I want to make sure I do not automatically shoot with the previous settings when there is a location / time gap between shots. Partially that is why I left Fuji, there were too many items to fiddle with!

That's how I handled it for most of the time with my M 240 - just manually underexposing a bit every time. I realized that nearly all my photos benefit from underexposing - therefore I decided to try to set the exposure value constantly to - 0.3 EV. Likely this feature is only thought to be used sporadically - therefore the "warning" display that an underexposure is used as baseline to calculate the needed exposure. I find it annoying to see it for every exposure which has to be taken, so I might indeed set it back to 0 EV and underexpose manually as I did before. 

I am shooting in parallel with a Sony FF MLC (A7R from 2013), and with this sensor 0 EV is absolutely okay - no clipped highlights! But especially with sky elements in photos, the M 240 needs to be underexposed at least -0.3 stops. Otherwise brighter clouds look ugly and without any structure. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would guess that the delay you’re experiencing is because the EV dial is probably meant to be used in conjunction with aperture priority mode.

In manual mode you can’t get +/- 0.3 EV only 0.5 (shutter dial only has half stops)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I assumed you're talking about bright sky, that's the only time I err on underexposing but even then I find the metering was well suited to the highlight recovery, if anything, I often overexpose slightly what the meter suggested as center weighted meter can be very sensitive to bright light source even if they're small in frame.

Lately when shooting tricky lights I usually end up meter my subject, note the shutter speed, dail in manual setting to compensate, and start framing without worrying exposure. If necessary, I'd check histogram on the first one or two shots.

Link to post
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said:

I assumed you're talking about bright sky, that's the only time I err on underexposing but even then I find the metering was well suited to the highlight recovery, if anything, I often overexpose slightly what the meter suggested as center weighted meter can be very sensitive to bright light source even if they're small in frame.

Lately when shooting tricky lights I usually end up meter my subject, note the shutter speed, dail in manual setting to compensate, and start framing without worrying exposure. If necessary, I'd check histogram on the first one or two shots.

I make sure the histogram is always more towards the left and never ever leaning towards the right - it's a killer on my M-E 240 (not sure if different camera versions have some little tweaks in algorithms which give some difference here?). Of course in bright situations (white blossoms for example now in spring or snow in winter) I need to overexpose since the meter will always automatically pull down the measurement which is a normal metering thing - but this is the exemption of the rule. 

This said, I am using also film Leica Ms where I always overexpose a bit - but this is due to the film used as medium. In digital, I find it depends a lot on the sensor manufacturer and how it is implemented in a camera in regard to image processing - each camera brand has their tweaks they use and requires considerably different ways to take photos in the first place and then also to post process them. For example I find the Sony sensors most pleasing for dynamic range but a bit of lackluster if it comes to colors which requires more post processing. Older Canon FF sensors had good color rendering but horrible shadows which could not be pushed a lot to rescue detail - but no highlight issues. Leica M-E 240 colors are fantastic IMO with barely any post processing needed, but as mentioned already be aware of easily clipping highlights if only a bit overexposed. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

I would guess that the delay you’re experiencing is because the EV dial is probably meant to be used in conjunction with aperture priority mode.

In manual mode you can’t get +/- 0.3 EV only 0.5 (shutter dial only has half stops)

 

I have seen the described viewfinder display in any mode on my M-E 240 - even in full manual where I set manually the exposure time according to the metering (which I use most often). Yes, the shutter dial itself has only half stop increments, but the menu display option where I can fix the EV value goes in 1/3rd stop increments (maybe because the M-E 240 has newer software similar to the M10? Not sure!).  

Edited by Martin B
Link to post
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Martin B said:

I make sure the histogram is always more towards the left and never ever leaning towards the right - it's a killer on my M-E 240 (not sure if different camera versions have some little tweaks in algorithms which give some difference here?). Of course in bright situations (white blossoms for example now in spring or snow in winter) I need to overexpose since the meter will always automatically pull down the measurement which is a normal metering thing - but this is the exemption of the rule. 

This said, I am using also film Leica Ms where I always overexpose a bit - but this is due to the film used as medium. In digital, I find it depends a lot on the sensor manufacturer and how it is implemented in a camera in regard to image processing - each camera brand has their tweaks they use and requires considerably different ways to take photos in the first place and then also to post process them. For example I find the Sony sensors most pleasing for dynamic range but a bit of lackluster if it comes to colors which requires more post processing. Older Canon FF sensors had good color rendering but horrible shadows which could not be pushed a lot to rescue detail - but no highlight issues. Leica M-E 240 colors are fantastic IMO with barely any post processing needed, but as mentioned already be aware of easily clipping highlights if only a bit overexposed. 

In my experience, e.g. shooting early sunset pointing directly toward the sun the meter usually leave plenty of headroom to the sky, often a half stop over still retain enough informations for me. YMMV though as I live in a country with all year summer.

I reckon that the M240 isn't too keen on shadows too, green shadows often the problem I'm facing, and the meter often underexpose too much in tricky lights. But we all have our own way of shooting, highlight recovery isn't my concern, but the erratic behaviour of the meters in tricky lights eventually makes me shoot in manual mode.

Link to post
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Casey Jefferson said:

In my experience, e.g. shooting early sunset pointing directly toward the sun the meter usually leave plenty of headroom to the sky, often a half stop over still retain enough informations for me. YMMV though as I live in a country with all year summer.

I reckon that the M240 isn't too keen on shadows too, green shadows often the problem I'm facing, and the meter often underexpose too much in tricky lights. But we all have our own way of shooting, highlight recovery isn't my concern, but the erratic behaviour of the meters in tricky lights eventually makes me shoot in manual mode.

Yes, you can only limitedly push shadows with the M 240 sensor - but it is sufficient if just a bit underexposed to push the shadows. But for more than 3 stops, you get ugly greenish casts which you mentioned. The sensor reminds me a bit here on the one I used in my Canon 5D MkII in 2009 - no greenish shadows here but banding issues in the images with overly pushed shadows. Workable, but very limited in DR to todays standard. But within this limitation, the M 240 is still a great camera to shoot with. 

Edited by Martin B
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m not convinced that the display of x EV comp in the viewfinder is adding anything to the shutter lag...

The quickest way to shoot (especially if one is content with the decisions of the camera’s inbuilt metering) would be aperture priority mode.

despite it being nothing to do with the OP, everyone’s stating how they deal with bright situations on the 240

So then will I 😂

2 stop ND filter for >f2 lenses (3 stop for <f2)  and often overexpose about 1/2 a stop is usually about right for me

of course if the scene has something problematic (say bright red) I might underexpose.

I set the jpeg (i have jpegs turned off, but you can still set the jpeg mode) to low contrast so that the in camera histogram (on image review) is a little closer to what I might expect from the DNG

Personally I find the  metering pretty good in the 240... of course sometimes one has to have an idea of where in the scene to point the camera (it might not be the subject)

very occasionally, I use live view and base the exposure on that.

There’s no wrong answer here I think. If one is using the camera’s in built meter (either via aperture mode or manual mode), then it’s just about adapting to the best use of the tool (or buy an external light meter)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...