Mechanical Perfection

[gabrielaszalos]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Personally I don’t care about the 28mm framelines as I only shoot 35 and 50, so I was only referring to the brightness exclusively. 

5 hours ago, oldwino said:

Honestly, you could buy a nice M2 or M4 and have the MP finder put in it, have the camera overhauled, and put on a new covering for less that what a new MP costs. 

I really like this idea. I am actually thinking to get an M3 for my 50 (favourite lens) and an M4 for my 35.

[a.noctilux]

6 hours ago, gabrielaszalos said:

Personally I don’t care about the 28mm framelines as I only shoot 35 and 50, so I was only referring to the brightness exclusively. 

I really like this idea. I am actually thinking to get an M3 for my 50 (favourite lens) and an M4 for my 35.

Why not 😉

Those old Ms are not foolproof, neither.

As I wrote before, I still have one used M3 and one M4 to be repaired, but what stops me is the amount of money asked to have them repaired (for example to sell them after that), so I don't bother to send them for repair.

Maybe I will sell them as parts someday.

By now, if I want something as reliable as possible (what I had done already but new when I could afford it) is finding second hand M-A knowed not having faults.

It would take some time, with chance of unluck to buy faulty M-A (so often read here and there) or second hand MP from happy owner.

Edited April 24, 2021 by a.noctilux

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[gabrielaszalos]

31 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Why not 😉

Those old Ms are not foolproof, neither.

As I wrote before, I still have one used M3 and one M4 to be repaired, but what stops me is the amount of money asked to have them repaired (for example to sell them after that), so I don't bother to send them for repair.

Maybe I will sell them as parts someday.

By now, if I want something as reliable as possible (what I had done already but new when I could afford it) is finding second hand M-A knowed not having faults.

It would take some time, with chance of unluck to buy faulty M-A (so often read here and there) or second hand MP from happy owner.

I highly doubt that. My experience says otherwise. The new cameras will just potentially be a ticking time bomb bought from a company whose focus is now different. I can not say the same for the older cameras. Sure, your cameras need repair, but that’s 50-60 years later, not one week later...

And yes, the old ones can, and will also have problems, but unless bad luck hits, they should be more reliable on the long time after a repair, especially if buying one in a good condition. 

Yes, buying from happy owner is always good. But happy owner rarely sells

Edited April 24, 2021 by gabrielaszalos

[a.noctilux]

Don't forget M6, you have more than 132,000 choices.

M4-2 or M4-P are also very reliable (I still use them once in a while), in these no need to send for expensive repairs (or CLA'd),

Bad reputation came from the very first units which since then faulty units were cured.

Those canadian built Ms are good for decades use.

I think that the inside were from start designed for motor/winder use so they are very strong.

I had some bad surprises with some M4 (from Germany ! ), but those "lesser loved" canadian M4-2/P just never gave me bad surprises or faults,

in use for very long.

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by a.noctilux

[Jacobjuul]

On 4/24/2021 at 12:17 PM, gabrielaszalos said:

I highly doubt that. My experience says otherwise. The new cameras will just potentially be a ticking time bomb bought from a company whose focus is now different. I can not say the same for the older cameras. Sure, your cameras need repair, but that’s 50-60 years later, not one week later...

And yes, the old ones can, and will also have problems, but unless bad luck hits, they should be more reliable on the long time after a repair, especially if buying one in a good condition. 

Yes, buying from happy owner is always good. But happy owner rarely sells

Unfortunately your experience is very similar to mine. I own a M3, M2, M6TTL and M7. All these cameras has worked flawlessly. Last month (after waiting for a long time), I was finally able to buy a new black chrome Leica M-A (after selling my M7), but the bottom plate didn't fit the camera (it was loose and when the technician tightened it, it was almost impossible to get off). The technician told me it was "within spec" and I spent 1 month convincing them to give me a new unit. Finally I got a silver chrome (all they had) M-A, which had a very choppy/sticky shutter. Fortunately, they gave me an immediate refund on that unit.

Now I am thinking that an M7, M6 classic (with MP finder) or a black chrome M4 would be a better choice (for about the same money as an M-A).

Edited May 12, 2021 by Jacobjuul

[a.noctilux]

Expectation of "perfection" can be very desappointing.

I also have (for much longer than M-A) BP and Black chrome M4 which are fine and so smooth, but they DO need some care (repair or CLA) once in a while.

The cost of those "cares" can be very high, if some used parts must be replaced ( sometimes not possible as parts not avalable anymore ), like the beautiful M4's brass eyelets for example, those eyelets can not be replaced by MP/M-A 's parts these are screwed to the shell, not reveted.

[gabrielaszalos]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

2 hours ago, Jacobjuul said:

Unfortunately your experience is very similar to mine. I own a M3, M2, M6TTL and M7. All these cameras has worked flawlessly. Last month (after waiting for a long time), I was finally able to buy a new black chrome Leica M-A (after selling my M7), but the bottom plate didn't fit the camera (it was loose and when the technician tightened it, it was almost impossible to get off). The technician told me it was "within spec" and I spent 1 month convincing them to give me a new unit. Finally I got a silver chrome (all they had) M-A, which had a very choppy/sticky shutter. Fortunately, they gave me an immediate refund on that unit.

Now I am thinking that an M7, M6 classic (with MP finder) or a black chrome M4 would be a better choice (for about the same money as an M-A).

I am very sorry to hear that you've had a similar experience. And thanks for sharing it, it's helpful and reassuring to know.

[Yaakov]

On 4/23/2021 at 5:08 PM, gabrielaszalos said:

Guess what? Today, I noticed scratches on a frame in my roll. Longitudinal scratches. If you want to see the type of scratches, looks closely towards the top of this photo: https://www.flickr.com/gp/gbbr/L08S49. I then went back and noticed this on all my negatives shot with the camera.

Of course I know that I was an idiot just earlier and assumed that my shutter curtain has a leak and it was actually dirt on the sensor of the camera I used for scanning. Granted, the "krispy rice" on the shutter curtain is not something that got there by my hand. I always exchange lenses with the shutter uncocked. I only advance the film before shooting. Anyway....

I picked up a roll of 400TX, pulled out about 40cm of it and examined it very carefully to guarantee that it is scratch free. I then loaded this roll into the camera, advanced the film 5 frames, rewound, and checked it. Scratches. God damn scratches. On the non-emulsion side mostly. I did this test two times, with two different rolls, so it is 100% the camera. Now, I do not care to discover the source of this, or to understand the technical reason behind it (pressure plate or whatever). My only goal is to make my experience heard.

This is my 3rd exchange MP. An MP which was arguably checked by a senior analog technician at Leica. Frankly, at this point, I refuse to believe I am unlucky, and I strongly believe that Leica is not capable of building a functional analog M camera. I believe that all the people (counting only 4 or 5 in this thread) that say that they have a reliable M-A or MP, have been just lucky, or have some older batch (pre-2010) which might've been better. All this, while I was in the process of ordering a second MP in silver. Thank God this happened and I cancelled that order. I can not describe how upset I am. I really love Leica M cameras, nothing compares to them, but this is just ridiculous. Leica clearly has the blueprints to put together the camera, but not the hands.

If everything else is ok with the camera, I would recommend you follow the instructions I posted here, if that works for you just ask them to replace the pressure plate.

[Jaka Skorjanc]

Am 13.4.2021 um 14:59 schrieb gabrielaszalos:

In the spirit of raising positivity, I'd like to invite you to post a response here if you've ever bought a new MP or M-A which was completely flawless for the first 5 years. I mean not one single problem, ever. I don't mean excluding "acceptable defects". I mean no issues at all, no problems, no imperfections, no service whatsoever.

I already know plenty of stories of the opposite

My new MP,  originally packed when bought, did have rangefinder problems from the first film and first shot.It did not focus properly on infinity. I brought it to Leica store in Moscow and it was adjusted in 30 minutes. But I have to say that if MP  stands for Mechanical Perfection than my M3 from 1963 is even more perfect. 

[Fotoklaus]

Am 24.4.2021 um 11:48 schrieb a.noctilux:

Why not 😉

Those old Ms are not foolproof, neither.

As I wrote before, I still have one used M3 and one M4 to be repaired, but what stops me is the amount of money asked to have them repaired (for example to sell them after that), so I don't bother to send them for repair.

Maybe I will sell them as parts someday.

By now, if I want something as reliable as possible (what I had done already but new when I could afford it) is finding second hand M-A knowed not having faults.

It would take some time, with chance of unluck to buy faulty M-A (so often read here and there) or second hand MP from happy owner.

If you have a good craftsman who could repair your M3 and M4, go for it. If there is enough money for a M-A, I wouldn´t hesitate and save those two classics.

Sell them for parts... The least good idea, in my opinion. You won´t get parts made in that quality anymore.

A fresh overhauled M4.. could not get more reliable than that.

[caymanlawyer]

I have been lucky - bought an M6TTL (last ones) in 2002, an MP in 2003 and an M3 in 2012 which I had CLA’d. All have been flawless 

[a.noctilux]

2 hours ago, Fotoklaus said:

If you have a good craftsman who could repair your M3 and M4, go for it. If there is enough money for a M-A, I wouldn´t hesitate and save those two classics.

Sell them for parts... The least good idea, in my opinion. You won´t get parts made in that quality anymore.

A fresh overhauled M4.. could not get more reliable than that.

@Fotoklaus

Thanks for your input.

A bit late, I fear, I don't need money for M-A.

I bought two in 2014 when launched (posted in M-A thread ), idea for replacement of old Ms more or less reliable.

Since that day I never had any complain, M-A are just good for their (soft now) job so easier than older M (2/3/4/5/6/etc.)

 

You are right to send them for repair.

They served me well for many years, and became good friends,

so maybe I don't want to sell them, who knows.

[28framelines]

20 hours ago, Jaka Skorjanc said:

My new MP,  originally packed when bought, did have rangefinder problems from the first film and first shot.It did not focus properly on infinity. I brought it to Leica store in Moscow and it was adjusted in 30 minutes. But I have to say that if MP  stands for Mechanical Perfection than my M3 from 1963 is even more perfect. 

Yea, same with me. Curious, who signed off on your MP after final inspection? Mine didn’t focus fully to infinity, so I got mine repaired.

[jakontil]

My MP meter just didnt work in OVF, swapped with another but in silver, the patch focus was misaligned vertically quite noticeably and after quite few rolls, the counter stopped working 

[a.noctilux]

2 hours ago, jakontil said:

My MP meter just didnt work in OVF, swapped with another but in silver, the patch focus was misaligned vertically quite noticeably and after quite few rolls, the counter stopped working 

@jakontil

Are they new those MP ?

[jakontil]

Just now, a.noctilux said:

@jakontil

Are they new those MP ?

Yes they r new, batch from mid 2020 sometime in june

[a.noctilux]

So many flawed new MP/M-A for some years now.

Sorry to hear that.

 

I wonder how is the rate of flawed deliveries of all new MP/M-A.

Leica may know?

I think that people happy with these new M would not write here or elsewhere.

[gabrielaszalos]

I'm on my 4th exchange MP. This one seems the best so far. No problems yet. But then again, I've not used it as much as I did the previous ones. Leica Customer Service is stellar!

Edited January 27, 2022 by gabrielaszalos

[Jacobjuul]

1 hour ago, gabrielaszalos said:

I'm on my 4th exchange MP. This one seems the best so far. No problems yet. But then again, I've not used it as much as I did the previous ones. Leica Customer Service is stellar!

Did they ever offer you a refund? I am a bit disheartened that I have to go through this again. So far I am also on my 4th M-A/MP 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Jacobjuul

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[malligator]

My M-A has been perfect for almost two years. I'm about to order its MP companion. I'll report how it goes, but I suspect it'll be just fine.

 

Edited to Add: Okay, this thread prompted me. I just ordered my MP. Now the excruciating wait begins.

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by malligator