Please Help: Leica M Purchasing Advice

[Harvard Kiwi]

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Hi everyone,

I know some people may not like these questions but I'm really eager to join your community but need some specific help to get set up.

I'm finally ready to move into the Leica M system and would really value your input in which option I should take. I'm in NZ and want to purchase domestically due to import taxes. 

Option 1:

Used M240 US$2960 (Recently CLAd)

Option 2:

Used M10 US$5990 advertised as excellent condition includes extra battery and Visoflex (I want this for my Nokton f1.2) Out of warranty.

Option 3:

Used M10 US$5288 excellent condition but no extra battery or Visoflex

Option 4:

Ex-demo M10 US$7051. Standard with full warranty. Will need to purchase a Visoflex and extra battery which would be an additional US$750.

I would obviously prefer the M10 but am wondering whether it is worth it. The main pros for me are the higher ISOs for low light.

I need to get this right as it's a lot of money and to be honest, I'm quite nervous. 

I can save quite a lot with option 2 but am nervous about buying used and out of warranty. The seller seems legit and pics look good. 

Thanks in advance to all that help.

James

[jaapv]

Do you need to buy privately? A good dealer will provide a warranty.

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[Adam Bonn]

I think personally on a used digital product that a warranty is always worth the piece of mind.

On a manual lens less so, you just need a seller that accepts returns

RE the M10/240, (I don’t have an M10) if you’re planning to use an accessory EVF a lot then the 10 makes more sense as the M10 EVF is more modern (in a 2016 tech spec EVF vs a 2012 one sort of way) and unlike the 240 you can move the focus point around the screen whereas the 240 it’s fixed in the centre.

Overall I feel personally that the 240 is a better buy... secondhand it’s generally half the price of the M10 used prices but it’s more than half the camera... but two areas where the M10 has significant improvements (discounting a few mm and grams) is low light and EVF/LCD focusing, which are the two things you mention.

So I suspect for you, the M10 is the one to get.

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Adam Bonn

[a.noctilux]

James,

it's very simple,

if you have the money, take M10

if not M240

I use them along with other digital M, in results 99% of the output I can't tell (what for ? ) which is which.

[Harvard Kiwi]

Thanks for the helpful answers. I'm so glad to be part of this community. I will be doing a bit of low light street work so the higher ISO of the M10 is appealing paired with a Voigtlander Nokton f1.2 lens. With the shallow depth of field wide open, I'd use the Visoflex but really I'm excited about the rangefinder. 

In New Zealand we don't have many used options and I cannot find a used M10 at a dealer other than the ex-demo I listed above. The exchange rate, shipping costs to the end of the world, and high import taxes make it too expensive to import a used one from an overseas dealer so I'm kind of forced to look privately or pay a lot more. 

Are there many dangers of buying used as I understand Leica construction is a amazing? My main concern is rangefinder alignment but I've been readsured that the ones I am looking at are correctly aligned. 

[a.noctilux]

If using M at 3200 ISO is fine, M240 or M10 would give "same" output, as with my experiences.

3200 ISO is enough for me.

 

I've never experienced RF alignment trouble with M240/246/262/10.

Maybe if you use the 1.2 lens at close distance, it would be most of time "user error" not the gear, thin dof, curvature field, etc.

 

As side note, buying with warranty from reputed seller can give peace of mind, and if there is something wrong, someone would help.

M10 can have some flaws from new as so often reported here and there.

Option 4, plus spare battery, use it a while then Visoflex 020 or not later.

 

[Paco]

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If there is no warranty, you can insure the camera. (And it can cover cover also thief and other damages). 

The M240 is built as a tank. I use mine for more than five years, no problem at all. I didn’t like the external EVF and I sold it. And I bought an SL for the cases that I need an EVF (75mm/90mm lenses in studio with flash). I see a lot of complains with the M10, PCB failures boards, SD cards locking the camera, ISO dial etc. (no sure about its reliability…)

It was a recent comment saying that Alex Webb is still using his M240!
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/318545-the-leica-apo-summicron-m-35mm-f2-asph-first-impressions/page/36/?tab=comments#comment-4166224

Agree with the others, to me usable ISO is ISO3200. The M10 is not clear, some say ISO6400 others ISO10000, who knows… 

The interesting M10s are the M10 Monochrome and the M10-R.

[jaapv]

And note - with present-day postprocessing, for instance Topaz deNoise, you can crank up the ISO quite a bit more than was possible a few years ago, you gain 2 ISO values approx.

[Harvard Kiwi]

Thank you to everyone who spent time helping me with this. I spoke with a few people and had some help from Mr Leica as well. You all provided good advice and made good points. I managed to negotiate the price of an M10 down by $700 and at that point I felt it was the deal to take. I appreciate the M240 is also a great option and I could also have been happy with that as my only real concern was high ISOs and from what you have said, I shouldn't be too worried about that. I'm not a pixel peeper and more concerned with composition and lighting but wanted to future-proof my purchase a little. I can't wait for my camera and lens to arrive and I look forward to making friends with you on this forum and continuing to learn from you. 

 

James

[Al Brown]

Whatever copy you end up buying without warranty could be a stellar performer and give you years of satisfaction or be a dud with all sorts of problems.
For peace of mind - send the bought used camera to Wetzlar for inspection. First hand experience - I bought a M camera from a friend I know well who used it very gently and did not realize the shutter needed replacement. He purchased it from a well known "internet camera blogger", who obviously conned him and slipped him a lemon. After a trip to Wetzlar and mucho dinero later (the camera was luckily bought cheaply) it is now bulletproof (almost everything was replaced - the shutter, the 6-bit reader, the top plate, some other tech stuff inside) and is like new.

If your work depends on it I strongly suggest the Wetzlar check. If not, fuggeddaboudit and just enjoy.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Al Brown

[a.noctilux]

1 hour ago, Harvard Kiwi said:

Thank you to everyone who spent time helping me with this. I spoke with a few people and had some help from Mr Leica as well. You all provided good advice and made good points. I managed to negotiate the price of an M10 down by $700 and at that point I felt it was the deal to take. I appreciate the M240 is also a great option and I could also have been happy with that as my only real concern was high ISOs and from what you have said, I shouldn't be too worried about that. I'm not a pixel peeper and more concerned with composition and lighting but wanted to future-proof my purchase a little. I can't wait for my camera and lens to arrive and I look forward to making friends with you on this forum and continuing to learn from you. 

 

James

Not clearly expressed 😉.

James, so you take M10 option 4 ?

[Harvard Kiwi]

I ended up going with option 4 as it was with an authorised dealer, came with the full warranty, was the least used and graded as a 10. It was the priciest option but this way, I have some peace of mind. I bought a new Visoflex as well but a used lens which is only a few months old and buying this used allowed me to save NZ$760. 

I see everything is with my local courier so I expect to have it within the next hour or so.