Checking the state of an M-D battery

[roydonian]

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Yet again I have bumped into what seems an annoying flaw of the Leica M-D. I wanted to know if enough charge was left in the battery for a quick photo session, and was rewarded by the message that no SD card was fitted. But I wasn't asking if an SD card was fitted - I was asking about battery condition, and it would be nice to have had an answer without being forced to find a handy SD card.

I have found no way around this - if you want to check battery state it seems that you must first fit an SD card. I cannot see any logic behind this. Surely the time to tell me that no SD card is fitted is when I ask the camera for the number of pics remaining, and not when I ask about battery condition.

Edited March 29, 2021 by roydonian

[Gibbo]

All my digital cameras have an SD card in all the time. 

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[Kwesi]

On 3/29/2021 at 11:45 AM, roydonian said:

Yet again I have bumped into what seems an annoying flaw of the Leica M-D. I wanted to know if enough charge was left in the battery for a quick photo session, and was rewarded by the message that no SD card was fitted. But I wasn't asking if an SD card was fitted - I was asking about battery condition, and it would be nice to have had an answer without being forced to find a handy SD card.

I have found no way around this - if you want to check battery state it seems that you must first fit an SD card. I cannot see any logic behind this. Surely the time to tell me that no SD card is fitted is when I ask the camera for the number of pics remaining, and not when I ask about battery condition.

Is the camera able  shoot without an SD card inserted? as in tethered mode? If not then I guess someone decided that its pointless telling you the state of your battery if you can't take a picture with the camera.

[pippy]

3 hours ago, Kwesi said:

Is the camera able shoot without an SD card inserted? as in tethered mode?...

No. The M-D Typ-262 can't be used tethered as there is no USB connection port.

Philip.

Edited April 1, 2021 by pippy

[M2Pete]

On 3/29/2021 at 8:45 AM, roydonian said:

I have found no way around this - if you want to check battery state it seems that you must first fit an SD card. I cannot see any logic behind this. Surely the time to tell me that no SD card is fitted is when I ask the camera for the number of pics remaining, and not when I ask about battery condition.

Oddly, I have found this feature(?) to be helpful. Right after I got my M-D I went out to a local park to shoot and got the "SD" message. It kept me from wasting my time getting nothing for my efforts. I'd really like a feature like this on my M2. I have often shot several frames only to find the roll I thought I'd loaded sitting in my bag or in my jacket pocket. 

[a.noctilux]

4 hours ago, M2Pete said:

Oddly, I have found this feature(?) to be helpful. Right after I got my M-D I went out to a local park to shoot and got the "SD" message. It kept me from wasting my time getting nothing for my efforts. I'd really like a feature like this on my M2. I have often shot several frames only to find the roll I thought I'd loaded sitting in my bag or in my jacket pocket. 

This "feature" has always been there under antique form 😉 of two dots on M2/M3 and turning crank from M4 onward untill MP/M-A re-two-red-dots.

To say it another way, turning the rewind-knob/crank can tell if there is film inside the M.

[roydonian]

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13 hours ago, M2Pete said:

Oddly, I have found this feature(?) to be helpful. Right after I got my M-D I went out to a local park to shoot and got the "SD" message. It kept me from wasting my time getting nothing for my efforts. I'd really like a feature like this on my M2. I have often shot several frames only to find the roll I thought I'd loaded sitting in my bag or in my jacket pocket. 

Can't say that I've ever had that problem. Part of my routine when packing my camera bag is to check that the sensor is clean and the camera battery is sufficiently charged, then fit a freshly formatted 4Gb SD card, and stow at least one freshly-formatted spare card.

When I get home from a shoot, the SD card is removed and taken to where my computer is located, while the camera will be stored in my photo-gear cabinet with its battery fitted but with no SD card.

When I'm thinking about having a photo outing in a few days time, I will want to check the battery state to see if a recharge is needed, but since my SD cards will probably be at a different location, all the camera is prepared to tell me is that no SD card is fitted – it ignores my request for an indication of battery status.

The person who designed the M-D firmware should have applied a little more thought to the task, and arranged that the camera would always be able to display battery capacity and SD card status whenever these items of information were requested. The time to show that no SD card is present is when the owner tries to check SD card status. An indication that I have an SD card capacity of zero would be adequate indication that the card slot was empty.

But I've found a workaround to the problem. Remember those pathetically tiny (and thus near useless) 64Mb SD cards that Leica used to include with early digital cameras? I've dug mine out of retirement, and placed one in the living room, one near my computer, and one where my cameras and lenses are  stowed. So wherever I'm likely to be in the house when wanting to check the battery state, an SD card will always be to hand.

When freshly formatted, a 64Mb card shows a capacity of exactly one pic when loaded into the M-D, so there is no risk that it will be confused with my normal 4Gb cards. Should I get careless and forget to fit a 'real' SD card into the camera, there is always at least one empty 4Gb card in my bag.

[mmradman]

On 4/19/2021 at 7:19 PM, roydonian said:

Can't say that I've ever had that problem. Part of my routine when packing my camera bag is to check that the sensor is clean and the camera battery is sufficiently charged, then fit a freshly formatted 4Gb SD card, and stow at least one freshly-formatted spare card.

When I get home from a shoot, the SD card is removed and taken to where my computer is located, while the camera will be stored in my photo-gear cabinet with its battery fitted but with no SD card.

When I'm thinking about having a photo outing in a few days time, I will want to check the battery state to see if a recharge is needed, but since my SD cards will probably be at a different location, all the camera is prepared to tell me is that no SD card is fitted – it ignores my request for an indication of battery status.

The person who designed the M-D firmware should have applied a little more thought to the task, and arranged that the camera would always be able to display battery capacity and SD card status whenever these items of information were requested. The time to show that no SD card is present is when the owner tries to check SD card status. An indication that I have an SD card capacity of zero would be adequate indication that the card slot was empty.

But I've found a workaround to the problem. Remember those pathetically tiny (and thus near useless) 64Mb SD cards that Leica used to include with early digital cameras? I've dug mine out of retirement, and placed one in the living room, one near my computer, and one where my cameras and lenses are  stowed. So wherever I'm likely to be in the house when wanting to check the battery state, an SD card will always be to hand.

When freshly formatted, a 64Mb card shows a capacity of exactly one pic when loaded into the M-D, so there is no risk that it will be confused with my normal 4Gb cards. Should I get careless and forget to fit a 'real' SD card into the camera, there is always at least one empty 4Gb card in my bag.

Your workaround procedure with 64Mb card is really odd, I think even an old dog can learn new tricks. I would suggest you keep your working 4Gb SD card with sufficient free memory in the camera at all times, you never know when you may need to use camera on short notice.

Here is my procedure, after every photoshoot I always put in freshly charged battery and memory card with at least enough capacity for 100 images.  This way I am ready to go on a short notice.  Just checked my M246, 50mm lens attached, battery at 75%, last time charged many weeks ago and free memory at 35% for 64Gb card.  

[plaidshirts]

Having a spare battery is a better workaround IMHO. No need to wonder about battery status - just put in the fully charged backup when needed.

[a.noctilux]

49 minutes ago, plaidshirts said:

Having a spare battery is a better workaround IMHO. No need to wonder about battery status - just put in the fully charged backup when needed.

Good advice for all digital camera M or not .

Before having the M-D, I always have another (or more) charged battery(ies), in case.

 

😇 Peace of mind with this sober M-D.

Not anymore worrying for second one with M-D (typ 262), I've never had empty battery in use, even in one week using the M-D everyday, no need to recharge it.

[pippy]

Not wanting to start a bunfight in the slightest but why on Earth would anyone ever not have a memory card installed in a body apart from when files are being downloaded? I really don't understand the rationale at all.

And call me Old-Fashioned but I always recharge my M-D battery after an outing and always have a memory card installed in my bodies. Following this routine I know with absolute certainty that I have battery-power and memory space available next time I head off. How difficult - or rebellious - is that?

Where am I going wrong?

OK; I know that to prolong battery-life to its fullest it's a Very Good Idea to run them down (etc) but, in the real world, I've never once experienced a problem with keeping batteries fully-charged.

Philip.

Edited April 21, 2021 by pippy

[M2Pete]

On 4/19/2021 at 2:00 AM, a.noctilux said:

This "feature" has always been there under antique form 😉 of two dots on M2/M3 and turning crank from M4 onward untill MP/M-A re-two-red-dots.

To say it another way, turning the rewind-knob/crank can tell if there is film inside the M.

I came to realize this but the occasional, "DOH!" moment does occur (a little more often as I age 😴).

[roydonian]

On 4/22/2021 at 12:40 AM, pippy said:

Not wanting to start a bunfight in the slightest but why on Earth would anyone ever not have a memory card installed in a body apart from when files are being downloaded? I really don't understand the rationale at all.

And call me Old-Fashioned but I always recharge my M-D battery after an outing and always have a memory card installed in my bodies. Following this routine I know with absolute certainty that I have battery-power and memory space available next time I head off. How difficult - or rebellious - is that?

I always stored my cameras without a film in them. From the days when I started photography some 60 years ago, I always kept the camera empty, reasoning that until I knew what I was going out to photograph, I didn't know what type and speed of film I'd need. When I became a journalist, the goal of the exercise was to get the film out of the camera and into the processing lab, then the pics onto the page.

Old habits die hard, while advancing years and declining mobility mean that this old dog is unlikely to have to take pics at short notice, so should have time to charge the battery and fit a card. Age and mobility also mean that the camera is spending most of its time in the cupboard, so what started out as a fully-charged battery may be at a lower level when I next set out to shoot.

As a beginner, I was taught that cameras should not be stored with their shutter cocked. Releasing the shutter would release the tension in the springs that powered the shutter blades/blinds, and help maintain the accuracy of the shutter speeds. I was told. In the late 1960s, a well-known Leica dealer assured me that this idea was wrong, but I was not convinced by his reasoning, so have continued the practice, and in recent years have extended it to include not leaving SD cards in the camera. Electrical connections between the camera and the card are physically small, and are required to reliably handle small levels of current. Fitting an SD card only when I'm going out to shoot means that the contacts in the camera body are not under mechanical load for most of the time - which I seem to recall from my days as an electronic engineer is the best way to treat small low-current electrical connections. It could well be unneccessary precaution, but I like to play it safe.

Having my camera report SD card status when I have asked it to report on battery state reminds me of the advice from one of my college lecturers that the easiest way of failing an exam is not to read the question carefully before starting on my answer. "Answer the bloody question", he would tell us. Well, that's what I wish my M-D would do.

 

 

[Gibbo]

It will, with an SD card in it. I'm not sure Leica can cater for all our quirks, we have to go along with them some of the time. You might just have to change your habits.

[boojum]

56 minutes ago, roydonian said:

I always stored my cameras without a film in them. From the days when I started photography some 60 years ago, I always kept the camera empty, reasoning that until I knew what I was going out to photograph, I didn't know what type and speed of film I'd need. When I became a journalist, the goal of the exercise was to get the film out of the camera and into the processing lab, then the pics onto the page.

Old habits die hard, while advancing years and declining mobility mean that this old dog is unlikely to have to take pics at short notice, so should have time to charge the battery and fit a card. Age and mobility also mean that the camera is spending most of its time in the cupboard, so what started out as a fully-charged battery may be at a lower level when I next set out to shoot.

As a beginner, I was taught that cameras should not be stored with their shutter cocked. Releasing the shutter would release the tension in the springs that powered the shutter blades/blinds, and help maintain the accuracy of the shutter speeds. I was told. In the late 1960s, a well-known Leica dealer assured me that this idea was wrong, but I was not convinced by his reasoning, so have continued the practice, and in recent years have extended it to include not leaving SD cards in the camera. Electrical connections between the camera and the card are physically small, and are required to reliably handle small levels of current. Fitting an SD card only when I'm going out to shoot means that the contacts in the camera body are not under mechanical load for most of the time - which I seem to recall from my days as an electronic engineer is the best way to treat small low-current electrical connections. It could well be unneccessary precaution, but I like to play it safe.

Having my camera report SD card status when I have asked it to report on battery state reminds me of the advice from one of my college lecturers that the easiest way of failing an exam is not to read the question carefully before starting on my answer. "Answer the bloody question", he would tell us. Well, that's what I wish my M-D would do.

 

 

The computer your respond on has cards in it permanently.

[pippy]

3 hours ago, roydonian said:

...Old habits die hard, while advancing years and declining mobility mean that this old dog is unlikely to have to take pics at short notice, so should have time to charge the battery and fit a card. Age and mobility also mean that the camera is spending most of its time in the cupboard, so what started out as a fully-charged battery may be at a lower level when I next set out to shoot...

Thanks for taking the time to describe your routine / rationale, roydonian, and I do assure you I was not intending to be provocative with my post.

Our ages are probably not that very far apart and much of what you wrote regarding 'Film-Camera Practice' was also drummed into me in my youth.

The major difference in our methodologies, as far as I can make out, is that I try to fit in some 'snapping-time' on a daily basis so for me it's second-nature to have the battery / batteries fully-charged and the SD inserted at all times but I appreciate that if shooting opportunities are not as regular then the situation - and subsequent practices - might well be different.

Philip.

[roydonian]

No intent to provoke was assumed for your post or anyone else's. We're all simply exchanging opinions in much the same way that we'd do over a glass of wine or beer in the 'real world'.

Due to my wife's poor health, she and I have both been living 'under house arrest' (full shielding) since lockdown started a year ago. So my mental horizons have been bounded by the village in which we live. I'm reminded of how some years ago a freelance photographer learned that the editor of a magazine to which he used to contribute had commissioned another guy to do a photo essay of the town where the freelance lived. The editor's response was "You live there - you don't see it any more". The published photo spread confirmed the truth in the editor's statement, the freelance later confirmed.

I did get out for a couple of days in the late autumn when I was exploring the image-rendering potential of a softar-type filter, but my only photo outing so far this year has been pottering around the oldest part of the village graveyard in order to try out a 50mm f/2.8 Elmar purchased at the last Photographica fair in London.  (It's as sharp as I remember from having used one in the late 1960s, but although the glass is clean, it flares in contre-jour situations. But that's a general problem caused by the reflectivity of the cover glass on digital sensors, I suspect.)

I've been going out for a 20min walk every day since the weather warmed up, so hopefully my mobility will improve to the point where I can carry a camera bag, and also become able to travel to London and get my hair cut so that I look more like the Eloi from "The Time Machine' and less like the chief Morlock.

 

19 hours ago, boojum said:

The computer your respond on has cards in it permanently.

Those cards were inserted into a brand-new motherboard when I built the computer some seven years ago, and have been there ever since. Never unplugged, they will stay there until the computer (or I) finally fail. Repeated plugging and unplugging is the factor that could affect reliability.

Having been an engineer on missile and space programmes has made me ultra-conservative in terms of electrical/electronic engineering. (Experimental work that involved handling, installing and using explosives probably shaped my 'play it safe' approach to situations.)

Edited April 26, 2021 by roydonian

[boojum]

"those cards were inserted into a brand-new motherboard when I built the computer some seven years ago, and have been there ever since. Never unplugged, they will stay there until the computer (or I) finally fail. Repeated plugging and unplugging is the factor that could affect reliability.

Having been an engineer on missile and space programmes has made me ultra-conservative in terms of electrical/electronic engineering. (Experimental work that involved handling, installing and using explosives probably shaped my 'play it safe' approach to situations.)"

 

I had similar concerns with my recorder, Sound Devices SD788T and SD702's.  I was quite concerned about the insertion and removal of cards as I record to HD and SD and use the SD as a medium to xfer files to my PC.  Not being an engineer I queried both the manufacturer and a few fellow recordists who were professionals.  All assured me that there were no problems with insertion and removal of cards.  And I proceeded on that advice which has been correct for the last eight or ten years.  So when I posit there is no apparent problem it is on the basis of my own experience and not conjecture.  As they say in IT, one test is worth a thousand opinions. And until I experience a failure due to removal and insertion I will continue to as I have done.  Of course, YMMV.

[pippy]

8 hours ago, roydonian said:

...I've been going out for a 20min walk every day since the weather warmed up, so hopefully my mobility will improve to the point where I can carry a camera bag, and also become able to travel to London and get my hair cut so that I look more like the Eloi from "The Time Machine' and less like the chief Morlock...

I wish you the very best of good fortune with this plan, Roydonian.

My own tonsorial status at the moment is (fortunately) less 'Chief Morlock' and far more 'Gandalf the Grey'......

Philip.

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