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M6 TTL Millennium - is a camera too nice to use?


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A bit of a dilemma here. I bought this locally in February. Its boxed, all matching papers, unused strap etc, almost as new, just a couple of tiny surface marks on the paint in a couple of places. It was slightly more expensive than a new MP, but I think this is the better camera on account of having the larger shutter speed dial. I used it once to shoot test film and kept worrying about marking it, I don't think I'd dare take it out of the house.... unsurprisingly the shutter was a bit out for an effectively unused 20yr old camera so I've had it lubricated and adjusted to spec. Its beautiful, but now the problem. I shouldn't really have bought it. I don't collect cameras, they are working things for me. I have a film Lecia, a nice late model M7, which I get on with better function wise. So this probably isn't going to get used at all.. 

Should I sell it on now, or put it in its box and keep it as an investment? Its got 12 months warranty on the L&A, but I don't want to lose money selling on quickly. What would you do? I don't need the money right now and I don't need to use it either.

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Edited by newtoleica
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38 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

Sell it. I understand that the metering on the TTL models cannot be repaired if it develops a fault, and electronics don't really like to sit unused for long periods of time.

This seems to be a bit of a thing against the TTL on forums. It applies of course to every single electro-mechanical film camera ever made and now long out of production. The Pentax ME  Super has a really bad reputation for failing, so does the Olympus OM10, The Olympus OM4Ti and Nikon FE are pretty robust (I have a pair of OM4Ti and several spare circuits), but dead when the circuitry goes. There's nothing to suggest a TTL is more likely to fail than the best of these cameras and if the meter goes its still a perfectly good meter-less mechanical camera like an MA. Still if what you're saying is that there is a perception that it will get more unreliable with time, its value will decline.

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16 minutes ago, newtoleica said:

This seems to be a bit of a thing against the TTL on forums. It applies of course to every single electro-mechanical film camera ever made and now long out of production. The Pentax ME  Super has a really bad reputation for failing, so does the Olympus OM10, The Olympus OM4Ti and Nikon FE are pretty robust (I have a pair of OM4Ti and several spare circuits), but dead when the circuitry goes. There's nothing to suggest a TTL is more likely to fail than the best of these cameras and if the meter goes its still a perfectly good meter-less mechanical camera like an MA. Still if what you're saying is that there is a perception that it will get more unreliable with time, its value will decline.

It's true that lots of older electronic cameras are still going strong. But, a working Pentax ME Super can be bought for about £50 or so. The OP's camera is worth significantly more in it's fully working state, much less so if it were to develop a fault and as they have specifically asked about keeping it as 'an investment' my comments stand.

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The world market for Leica M6TTL beggs to differ:

the prices are continuously on the rise.

I‘ve been told (not being a camera service specialist myself) in a German Leica Store, that if the light meter ever failed, which is unlikely, it could be replaced with a complete one for an MP, which is miniaturized and takes less space.  
To go shoot with a Millenium, why not? There are people wearing watches being a lot more valuable on a daily basis. Not to mention a quite worn Hèrmes Leica with a 35mm I once saw in Paris. In a metro.

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You (OP) mentioned  "I don't need the money right now and I don't need to use it either"

That being said I would suggest to insure it and keep it even if you don't use it. It's value is only going to go up in the future.  It's a limited copy in an excellent condition. Also, the meter problem on the TTL is extremely over-blown. 

By selling it now you will be forgoing it's guaranteed increased value in the future. If your circumstances change you can easily cash it out or use it to trade for something else.  Only break the "never sell a Leica" rule if it's a digital body, not for an analog/film Leica body.  :) 

Edited by twogun
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Add me to the 'sell it' column.  There is no guarantee of future appreciation.  I'd personally take the $$$ now and buy an MP or regular M6 if you need the meter, or an M-A/M4 if you don't.  IMO (and you seem to share it) a camera is meant to be used, not sitting in a box growing old.

Edited by logan2z
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I had one.

I sold it.

I felt that somehow the aesthetics overshadowed the functionality and that I had too much money tied up in it, even though I didn't need the money when I sold it..

I sometimes think I could have made a financially better deal on it but I got my expenditure back and I don't think of cameras as investments.

I feel much happier shooting with my M2.

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Am in a similar dilemma concerning a mint 50 anniversary black mint M4 I purchased in Oct, 2020.  I already had both a great working M2 and a recently acquired Leica 3f for my film needs.  If I use the M4, I might mark it and decrease its value.  I thought about it for awhile and realized I have never bought a Leica camera as an investment but usually as a result of GAS.  

As I have posted earlier, both the M2 and M4 are my favorite Leica film bodies.  I cannot honestly pick one over the other and if you ask me it will depend on which way the wind is blowing or the day of the week.  I would say use it and then you will know the story behind each mark put on it.  I love the black paint M4 but would not buy one as I did not put the wear marks on it but someone else did.  If you do not like using beautiful cameras, then sell it and pocket a couple thousand dollars while buying a "user" model.  

As I said, I enjoy using a beautiful mint body but it does not take any better photos then the "user" M2 but it does not take any worse one's either.  Only you can decide so good luck.

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If you now keep it and don’t use it, well, you just became a collector. Nothing wrong with that, although you have stated you aren’t a collector. What to do?

Since you had it CLA’d, why not sell it on to someone who actually wants to use it? It’s ready to go out and take photos with a willing pair of hands, now.

If you want something nice to look at, buy a piece of Lalique glassware, or equivalent. No maintenance or deterioration to worry about (just don’t drop it ... ).

Good luck!

 

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As a user, I avoid buying 'mint' cameras. I actually like 'patina', I don't care who originated it, and it is very useful in reducing the price of an otherwise perfectly good workhorse of a camera when I'm buying one. I have a tatty black paint M4 which is my last 35mm film camera - if only it could talk; I have some information about its 'provenance' and it seems that it belonged to a fairly well known professional photographer. One of my M9s is dented and was well marked with scrapes and scratches when I bought it, and has more now. It was very cheap as a result, but had a full Leica 12 month warranty on it so had been fully repaired and it continues to be a great camera and is my everyday workhorse Leica M.

All that said, I would not buy a 'mint special edition' camera because their existence relies on their collectability not usability. So sell if you will never use it or keep it as a collectible, or if neither happen then use it and just accept that it is not an investment because I cannot see how you can keep a camera pristine if you do use it. The real problem is that intrinsically beautiful objects, like Leica cameras, can have an appeal well beyond their usability.

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12 hours ago, twogun said:

By selling it now you will be forgoing it's guaranteed increased value in the future.

There is absolutely no guarantee that its value will increase. If there was, I'd probably buy it (rather than have equivalent savings earning close to zero interest). The world economy is heading into difficult times and whilst assets are a good hedge against inflation and other problems, I'm not sure the OP's camera is the best asset to hold in those circumstances. 

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33 minutes ago, pgk said:

As a user, I avoid buying 'mint' cameras. I actually like 'patina', I don't care who originated it, and it is very useful in reducing the price of an otherwise perfectly good workhorse of a camera when I'm buying one. I have a tatty black paint M4 which is my last 35mm film camera - if only it could talk; I have some information about its 'provenance' and it seems that it belonged to a fairly well known professional photographer. One of my M9s is dented and was well marked with scrapes and scratches when I bought it, and has more now. It was very cheap as a result, but had a full Leica 12 month warranty on it so had been fully repaired and it continues to be a great camera and is my everyday workhorse Leica M.

All that said, I would not buy a 'mint special edition' camera because their existence relies on their collectability not usability. So sell if you will never use it or keep it as a collectible, or if neither happen then use it and just accept that it is not an investment because I cannot see how you can keep a camera pristine if you do use it. The real problem is that intrinsically beautiful objects, like Leica cameras, can have an appeal well beyond their usability.

I'm the same 2 of my M9s are pretty beat up worse now than when I bought them my third was pristine but a really good price so I bought it and use it and as a result it is starting to get some paint chips and rubs but I don't care. I also have a 2003 MP which I bought for a good price because it wasn't "pretty" but had recent CLA/service documented so I was again happy to buy and use. It also looks worse now. I have found that once the paint starts to come off it just seems to wear increasingly quickly??

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16 hours ago, tri said:

The world market for Leica M6TTL beggs to differ:

the prices are continuously on the rise.

I‘ve been told (not being a camera service specialist myself) in a German Leica Store, that if the light meter ever failed, which is unlikely, it could be replaced with a complete one for an MP, which is miniaturized and takes less space.  
To go shoot with a Millenium, why not? There are people wearing watches being a lot more valuable on a daily basis. Not to mention a quite worn Hèrmes Leica with a 35mm I once saw in Paris. In a metro.

There have been reports to the contrary on this forum and elsewhere, suggesting that Leica no longer have all the parts for the TTL, including the main circuit board. I guess it depends what breaks. The M6 Classic is reportedly still repairable. It would probably be easier to replace a Classic meter with an MP meter - these are much simpler circuits than the one in the TTL, which also has to handle flash metering. I think this is the reason for the difference in size between the TTL and the others.

Edited by Anbaric
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vor 59 Minuten schrieb Anbaric:

There have been reports to the contrary on this forum and elsewhere, suggesting that Leica no longer have all the parts for the TTL, including the main circuit board. I guess it depends what breaks. The M6 Classic is reportedly still repairable. It would probably be easier to replace a Classic meter with an MP meter - these are much simpler circuits than the one in the TTL, which also has to handle flash metering. I think this is the reason for the difference in size between the TTL and the others.

That‘s what I have been told, too: no more TTL flash measuring. Other than that, light readings functioning just as in a MP or M6 (plain -

owners and sellers like to call „M6 classic“) .

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I bought a Millennium from KEH in 2012. It had been on the site for months and I paid about $1200 USD for it. It came in the presentation box along with the papers, it had never been used. It took a trip to the factory in Solms for the finder upgrade, new light seals and some minor adjustments. I replaced the frame line selector and the rewind switch with the black paint versions from the MP. The red dot was replaced with a black one from DAG. It was a gorgeous camera and worked great. At one time I had a Chiyoko Super Rokkor 45 2.8, the lens did not have click stops and with a FOOKH hood attached, it was easy to dial in the exact f stop by using the meter diodes. I used it with multiple flash units and the TTL worked as designed. The main problem with the TTL was finding Metz flashes and the right module. Eventually, I moved to LumaPro 108s' and a radio trigger. Over all, it was just about the perfect M camera, even with the big backward shutter speed dial that lets you adjust the speeds while looking through the viewfinder. I sold it and a lot of other Leica gear to help finance some home improvements. Whoever bought it got the deal of a lifetime. Now I have an M4 and couldn't be happier. The integrated circuit on the TTL may die one day but it's a great user camera. Use it and enjoy it.

Edited by madNbad
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