M10M - Any Regrets?

[chasdfg]

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9 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

The only improvement I can think of would be a BSI sensor with ISO 100,000 capability.  That would be a nice improvement. 

Still, waiting for the perfect M camera is not a good strategy.  Live now, photograph now. 

People grow old and die waiting for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow we call perfection, which turns out to be an illusion.

Plus anyway, even if a BSI 40 to 60mp sensor does come out with clean ISO to 100,000 with Bayer filter (this will probably be inevitable) and clean iso 400,000 bayer-less, how clean does one need? I'm perfectly fine shooting iso 12800 and pushing the files in post, and I rarely ever need to shoot that high either. Even if a newer M11M comes out (probably in 3 to 4 years looking at the M11 timeline), I can't find much that is lacking in this camera that'd tempt me (unlike the M10, sensor wise, which is partly because the M10M has spoilt me). Definitely a live now photograph now situation for the M10M.

[Jeff S]

11 minutes ago, chasdfg said:

All my presets for the M10M have adjusted curves to my liking (I don't apply them by default though). Displaying lower contrast for the display in-camera doesn't change the output/files on import but it does give me a representation of my final output when I'm out and about as the LCD displayed images are also too contrasty for me (which has nothing to do with and cannot be tweaked by LR import or PP as it is just the display in-camera)

Different strokes.  I couldn’t care less about picture rendering on my screen, other than ensuring that the histogram shows the most data without blowing highlights.  The print rendering I intend is in my head, not on the screen. But we all have different approaches.

Jeff

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[geoffreyg]

There are so many positives...only 1 regret: I miss the capability to tweak color files into custom BW results, a technique used happily w MFDB. But the sheer usability of the camera plus the malleability of the files wins the day. set it for min 1/250, and blurred shots are history.

[jplomley]

Thank-you all for the feedback, much appreciated! Pulled the trigger and the M10M now completes a trio, joined by the M10-R and SL2. 

A day of street shooting has convinced me this was the right decision. Image files are fantastic and extremely malleable, precautions taken of course to protect the highlights. 16 x 20 prints on Epson's Exhibition Fiber are incredibly detailed with the richest blacks I have ever seen, nearly equaling the 4x5 drum scans I used to do on reverse processed Ilford 100. 

The one fly in the ointment I've not been able to figure out is the back-focusing I observe with my 35 Lux FLE on the M10M, at all distances. My 50 Lux Asph and 28 Cron v2 are spot on. So logically, one would expect the lens is at play. However, the 35 Lux FLE is perfect on my M10-R (as are the 50 Lux and 28 Cron). The same 35 Lux was also perfect on the pair of M10's and M10-P I used to have. Extremely puzzling to say the least, as its unclear whether the M10M body or lens are at play. Anyone else have a similar experience? Related to the wavy resolution of the 35 Lux and the lack of Bayer filter on the sensor adding depth of focus?

[nodrog]

2 hours ago, jplomley said:

Thank-you all for the feedback, much appreciated! Pulled the trigger and the M10M now completes a trio, joined by the M10-R and SL2. 

A day of street shooting has convinced me this was the right decision. Image files are fantastic and extremely malleable, precautions taken of course to protect the highlights. 16 x 20 prints on Epson's Exhibition Fiber are incredibly detailed with the richest blacks I have ever seen, nearly equaling the 4x5 drum scans I used to do on reverse processed Ilford 100. 

The one fly in the ointment I've not been able to figure out is the back-focusing I observe with my 35 Lux FLE on the M10M, at all distances. My 50 Lux Asph and 28 Cron v2 are spot on. So logically, one would expect the lens is at play. However, the 35 Lux FLE is perfect on my M10-R (as are the 50 Lux and 28 Cron). The same 35 Lux was also perfect on the pair of M10's and M10-P I used to have. Extremely puzzling to say the least, as its unclear whether the M10M body or lens are at play. Anyone else have a similar experience? Related to the wavy resolution of the 35 Lux and the lack of Bayer filter on the sensor adding depth of focus?

Not the 35 Lux FLE, but I do see a similar problem with my Voigtlander 40mm f1.4 Nokton Classic, which I code in-camera as the 35 Lux. It consistently misses focus at various distances, from short to mid-range, despite being OK at infinity. This is very frustrating, as the lens focuses perfectly on my M10. Like you, I don't know what's going on. Is it a lens problem, RF out of whack, or what? My 50 Lux and 28 Elmarit are pin sharp on both cameras. 

[jcargar]

I had the same experience with my 35mm Summilux FLE on the M10M. It worked well on my M10R, M10P and base M10. Was sent to Germany. Unclear what was done but it now works well with the Monochrom. All other lenses tested on the M10M had no focusing inconsistencies. Only the 35mm FLE.

[jplomley]

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10 minutes ago, jcargar said:

I had the same experience with my 35mm Summilux FLE on the M10M. It worked well on my M10R, M10P and base M10. Was sent to Germany. Unclear what was done but it now works well with the Monochrom. All other lenses tested on the M10M had no focusing inconsistencies. Only the 35mm FLE.

Thank-you sir! Was starting to question my methodology.....and then my sanity 🤪 Will try another M10M sample, and if same result, shall send in the lens for an adjustment 

[jcargar]

In case it was unclear in my previous answer, the 35mm FLE was sent to Germany by Leica USA. It is now spot on.

Juan

[jplomley]

3 minutes ago, jcargar said:

In case it was unclear in my previous answer, the 35mm FLE was sent to Germany by Leica USA. It is now spot on.

Juan

Thanks Juan, understood. My 35 Lux FLE was manufactured in 2015. Wonder if there have been some tweaks since then?

[jcargar]

My lens was also manufactured in 2015. I also found it odd that it worked well with the M10R but not with the Monochrome. After testing repeatedly I finally just sent the lens in. After its 8 week holiday it was returned to me. Has been great since and is permanently welded to the M10M.

[jplomley]

Appears our lenses may have originated from a similar, if not the same batch.  The fact your's was successfully sorted out gives me hope....not really keen to ditch my 35 Lux and be forced into a 35 APO "upgrade" having just spent the coin on the M10M.

[jplomley]

1 hour ago, jcargar said:

My lens was also manufactured in 2015. I also found it odd that it worked well with the M10R but not with the Monochrome. After testing repeatedly I finally just sent the lens in. After its 8 week holiday it was returned to me. Has been great since and is permanently welded to the M10M.

Juan, I forgot to ask, was there a charge to have your 35 Lux adjusted? Seems it was perfect on all bodies except the M10M, so would seem unfair to charge an adjustment fee.

[jcargar]

Yes there was a charge. Some of it was done as good will, even though the warranty has long since expired. On a side note, it works well on the M10R.

[LeicaTobin]

Jeff, how is the sharpness hand held with 35mm at around 1/180, ISO 400?. This is where I live with direct flash. I worry that the size of the sensor is going to make it not sharp as my Leica M10 which is razor sharp.

Thoughts? Thanks man!

 

Tobin

[Luke_Miller]

Don't have an M10M, but with my 45 mpx Nikon D850 using a shutter speed of 2x focal length gets me sharp hand held images with non-stabilized lenses. I  expect that  1/180 would be more than enough with an M.  Remember that flash duration is typically in the 1/1000 sec range, so if it is the primary light source you will have no problem.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Luke_Miller

[jplomley]

11 hours ago, LeicaTobin said:

Jeff, how is the sharpness hand held with 35mm at around 1/180, ISO 400?. This is where I live with direct flash. I worry that the size of the sensor is going to make it not sharp as my Leica M10 which is razor sharp.

Thoughts? Thanks man!

 

Tobin

Hi Tobin,

I'm no surgeon, but I'm able to handhold down to 1/60th without issue on both the M10M and M10-R. I use the dedicated Leica hand-grip on both bodies and am a left-eyed shooter, which means my cheek is pressed against the back of the camera when tripping the shutter. This might make a difference, as I have noted when using LiveView on the back-screen and holding the camera away from my face to see the display before tripping the shutter, I need 1/250th. This might also be related to the fact that in Liveview there is an extra shutter closure that might lead to some vibration????

Hope some of this helps and does not impose a limitation to an otherwise incredible imaging tool.

Cheers,

Jeff

 

[T25UFO]

19 hours ago, LeicaTobin said:

Jeff, how is the sharpness hand held with 35mm at around 1/180, ISO 400?. This is where I live with direct flash. I worry that the size of the sensor is going to make it not sharp as my Leica M10 which is razor sharp.

Thoughts? Thanks man!

 

Tobin

I have never used the M10M with flash - just doesn't seem that sort of camera because the high ISO performance is so good.  My basic settings are Auto ISO coupled with a shutter speed of 1/250th.  This is a camera where you really can let the ISO find its own level.

[RexGig0]

This has been an informative discussion, as I ponder whether to beat the Leica USA price hike, due to occur about an hour from now. I have the money, in the bank, so would not be going into debt, but spending close to $9K US, total, for the camera and the sales tax, is not an easy decision.

I currently use M10 and M Type 246 cameras. I do, very much, love shooting in monochrome, but, I also enjoy the lovely M10 color palette, which suits my wife’s skin tone so well.

 

[Jeff S]

On 3/30/2021 at 9:06 AM, jplomley said:

Thank-you all for the feedback, much appreciated! Pulled the trigger and the M10M now completes a trio, joined by the M10-R and SL2. 

A day of street shooting has convinced me this was the right decision. Image files are fantastic and extremely malleable, precautions taken of course to protect the highlights. 16 x 20 prints on Epson's Exhibition Fiber are incredibly detailed with the richest blacks I have ever seen, nearly equaling the 4x5 drum scans I used to do on reverse processed Ilford 100. 

The one fly in the ointment I've not been able to figure out is the back-focusing I observe with my 35 Lux FLE on the M10M, at all distances. My 50 Lux Asph and 28 Cron v2 are spot on. So logically, one would expect the lens is at play. However, the 35 Lux FLE is perfect on my M10-R (as are the 50 Lux and 28 Cron). The same 35 Lux was also perfect on the pair of M10's and M10-P I used to have. Extremely puzzling to say the least, as its unclear whether the M10M body or lens are at play. Anyone else have a similar experience? Related to the wavy resolution of the 35 Lux and the lack of Bayer filter on the sensor adding depth of focus?

FWIW, my recently purchased new 35 FLE focused without issue on the M10 M that I just rented.

Jeff

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[LeicaTobin]

Thanks so much Jeff! I really appreciate your response and experience. I think we met in Camtec in 2009 one Saturday maybe? I am from Nova Scotia. I remember seeing your amazing Cuba work on the walls at Camtec as well. That voodoo shot with the 21 still lives in my head!