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Scratches on the emulsion side should be very difficult in a 35mm camera body, as the emulsion side should only contact along the raised film rails and raised edges of the sprocket roller. The film path under the picture area is recessed so it can't contact the film. The layers of film wound on the take-up spool contact each other, but would not affect the whole roll. The emulsion side does wind outward toward the case on the take-up spool, but tension on the film should keep it tight to th

The fact that the scratches are on the emulsion side would seem to indicate the fault is not with the camera (although it is possible) however the various responses have just illustrated the rather common trend on this forum (and indeed many forums) for negative comments which are not born out by the overwhelming positive experiences of users.  

That is a brutal statistic. That’s why I don’t buy new cameras, analogue or digital, anymore. I have others buy new at full price,  test it for me, then take it off their hands at a steep discount 😜. 

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2 hours ago, gabrielaszalos said:

I am only on my third 😂 Let’s see. Fingers crossed. 

And you’re about to buy an M-A? Don’t you realize those are recycled bits of the MP? 
 

I’ve seen other posts which someone stripped the covering off and there indeed was a metal cap where the battery was (can’t seem to find it right now). 
 

M-A is nothing more than a scrapped MP. 

 

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9 minutes ago, tightsqueez said:

And you’re about to buy an M-A? Don’t you realize those are recycled bits of the MP? 
 

I’ve seen other posts which someone stripped the covering off and there indeed was a metal cap where the battery was (can’t seem to find it right now). 
 

M-A is nothing more than a scrapped MP. 

 

Let’s not highjack this thread and get sidetracked on the topic, but check my latest responses on my thread about buying a second body. 

I saw that photo too, of the blocked up battery compartment. 

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27 minutes ago, gabrielaszalos said:

Let’s not highjack this thread and get sidetracked on the topic, but check my latest responses on my thread about buying a second body. 

I saw that photo too, of the blocked up battery compartment. 

Hijack what? It’s all related, just as you are on your third and I stopped on my fifth. 
 

After all... it’s all the same junk. You and I and everyone else are only trying to fool ourselves. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, tightsqueez said:

Hijack what? It’s all related, just as you are on your third and I stopped on my fifth. 
 

After all... it’s all the same junk. You and I and everyone else are only trying to fool ourselves. 

So unequivocal, so uneducated. The development of Leica cameras has always leapfrogged the previous camera, some bits saved, some new bits added. A case in point would be the very last M4-P,  in every way an M6, but without a meter. So people who bought an M6 were being conned were they? Where did thefilm advance lever for the MP and M-A come from, the M3 perhaps? If you order an M-A you are ordering the current Leica film camera without a meter, what is so difficult to understand if the battery hole is covered up?

 

Edited by 250swb
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30 minutes ago, 250swb said:

So unequivocal, so uneducated. The development of Leica cameras has always leapfrogged the previous camera, some bits saved, some new bits added. A case in point would be the very last M4-P,  in every way an M6, but without a meter. So people who bought an M6 were being conned were they? Where did thefilm advance lever for the MP and M-A come from, the M3 perhaps? If you order an M-A you are ordering the current Leica film camera without a meter, what is so difficult to understand if the battery hole is covered up?

 

Sorry? Uneducated? 
 

What you speak of, bits and pieces, are evolving... some stay, some advance. Huge news flash there! You need to forward your degree program path to me as soon as possible. 
 

Anyways, either they do so because they add ease of use, e.g. modern rewind of M4/6/7 over the dinosaur M3/2/P/-A. 
 

And your argument about the M4-P vs M6 is, let’s say, untalented. I’m going to start calling you untalented. Sorry, just following your educated rationale. Feel free to offer art or images to counter. I don’t care how much both cameras share the same parts, one adds a meter, the other does not. What does the M-A add? Or is an added value an actual deletion? 
 

My uneducated statement resides on the fact you can have a stupid M-A by simply taking out the battery of an MP. 

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1 hour ago, Danner said:

I really want a second film-M, and this thread has me thinking that a second M6 classic is a better option than a new MP.

Used M6 prices are insanely high now, but a lot less than a new MP. I have an M6 that has been there, done everything on the planet. Ask for an M6 that’s been blown up 26 times and and I’ll show you one. 
 

I wish I could give you silver bullet advice but there just isn’t a clear path. 
 

Do you require a meter? It’ll give you more options. I dunno, after all these years, I take the same exposed images whether with or without a meter. Can’t go wrong with an M3/2/4 paired with a good technician. 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, tightsqueez said:

My uneducated statement resides on the fact you can have a stupid M-A by simply taking out the battery of an MP. 

If I didn't have the need for a built-in meter then I wouldn't purchase an MP and remove the battery (unless I had to have black paint).  That would leave me with a useless battery 'wart' on the front of the camera and, if I'm not mistaken', still leave me with incomplete framelines in the viewfinder due to the space taken up by the metering LEDs.  So an M-A isn't exactly an MP with the batteries removed.  Oh, and if one wants a new black chrome Leica film camera, the M-A is the only option.

Edited by logan2z
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1 minute ago, logan2z said:

If I didn't have the need for a built-in meter then I wouldn't purchase an MP and remove the battery.  That would leave me with a useless battery 'wart' on the front of the camera and, if I'm not mistaken', still leave me with incomplete framelines in the viewfinder due to the space taken up by the metering LEDs.  So an M-A isn't exactly an MP with the batteries removed.  Oh, and if one wants a new black chrome Leica film camera, the M-A is the only option.

Oh my... incomplete framelines!!!! How would you ever figure out how to make an image? 
 

I literally just threw my 75mm lenses on the front lawn because of the framelines. 

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3 hours ago, tightsqueez said:

And you’re about to buy an M-A? Don’t you realize those are recycled bits of the MP? 
 

I’ve seen other posts which someone stripped the covering off and there indeed was a metal cap where the battery was (can’t seem to find it right now). 
 

M-A is nothing more than a scrapped MP. 

 

FWIW, this is not unheard of in other luxury market segments as well.  For example, there are many luxury watch manufacturers who will produce a no-date version of a watch and simply not cut the date opening in the dial, but leave the date portion of the movement intact, so you can still hear the date clicking over at midnight.  Some will even leave the date setting position of the crown intact as well.  This isn't typically done at the top of the market, but there are manufacturers that have done and continue to do this.   

I do agree that it would be better if Leica would produce two different bodies for the M-A and MP so that there was no battery compartment in the M-A to be papered over.  But I can understand why that not make sense from an economic point of view, and I don't think that implies that the M-A is nothing more than a parts bin special.  If Leica really intended to cheap out, they could have fitted the M-A with the MP's viewfinder as well - complete with metering LEDs that were simply inactive.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, tightsqueez said:

Oh my... incomplete framelines!!!! How would you ever figure out how to make an image? 
 

I literally just threw my 75mm lenses on the front lawn because of the framelines. 

 

😊

Just making the point that an M-A isn't simply an MP with the batteries removed.  

Edited by logan2z
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1 minute ago, logan2z said:

FWIW, this is not unheard of in other luxury market segments as well.  For example, there are many luxury watch manufacturers who will produce a no-date version of a watch and simply not cut the date opening in the dial, but leave the date portion of the movement intact, so you can still hear the date clicking over at midnight.  Some will even leave the date setting position of the crown intact as well.  This isn't typically done at the top of the market, but there are manufacturers that have done and continue to do this.   

I do agree that it would be better if Leica would produce two different bodies for the M-A and MP so that there was no battery compartment in the M-A to be papered over.  But I can understand why that not make sense from an economic point of view, and I don't think that implies that the M-A is nothing more than a parts bin special.  If Leica really intended to cheap out, they could have fitted the M-A with the MP's viewfinder as well - complete with metering LEDs that were simply inactive.

They should have. I agree 100%. Go all out and make an “in-house built” meter-less beast that’ll outlast WWIII. 

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12 minutes ago, logan2z said:

 

😊

Just making the point that an M-A isn't simply an MP with the batteries removed.  

I will not be fooled! Ha ha. As much as I think the black chrome M-A is a beautiful camera, I will not be fooled! 

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26 minutes ago, tightsqueez said:

I will not be fooled! Ha ha. As much as I think the black chrome M-A is a beautiful camera, I will not be fooled! 

Well, this fool has one and loves it 🙂Luckily it has never given me any trouble.

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Get a new roll of film, pull about 12inches/30cm out and check it's perfectly clean on both sides. Wind it back into the cassette and then load it in the camera, shoot about 4 frames, rewind and then look at the film again. If the camera is scratching the film you'll see the marks (no need to process it).

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, tightsqueez said:

And you’re about to buy an M-A? Don’t you realize those are recycled bits of the MP? 
 

I’ve seen other posts which someone stripped the covering off and there indeed was a metal cap where the battery was (can’t seem to find it right now). 
 

M-A is nothing more than a scrapped MP. 

 

It wouldn't be so bad if stuff like this was just hyperbole, but it's outright hysteria and seems to be a revelation for you. And you know what a revelation is, it's simply finding out something you didn't know before. It's not like up until now everybody except you were fooled in some way to think the M-A was a unique camera, and fitting different parts to the same chassis is common across industry, so yes, people who buy the M-A are more or less buying an MP without a meter. Wow!

Edited by 250swb
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10 hours ago, tightsqueez said:

have a stupid M-A by simply taking out the battery of an MP. 

Think they probably took out the meter and the diodes etc. too.

I have a IIF with a blocked up slow speed dial hole. It's the way it's always been done. Didn't you know? Should research these things first and go elsewhere if you don't like it.

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